Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

A place for those new to Biblical Hebrew to ask basic questions about the language of the Hebrew Bible.
Forum rules
Members will observe the rules for respectful discourse at all times!
Please sign all posts with your first and last (family) name.
Ruminator
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:09 am

Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by Ruminator »

SteveMiller wrote:William,
I agree that "origin" is not a valid meaning. 2Sam 3:25 seems to refer to military goings out.

I took a look at 2 Sam 3:25 and indeed, that is a very relevant example. Thank you.
---------------
William Ross
User avatar
tian777
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:20 am

Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by tian777 »

Thank you Dr. Kirk. I had noticed that both the resources that you are recommending are also mentioned by Brotzman and Tully at the start of Chapter 8 of their Old Testament Textual Criticism. A practical introduction. in which they deal with the critical apparatus found in the Book of Ruth in BHS. I had been reluctant to purchase one or both of the resources, but with this confirmation by you, I am convinced that it will be the way for me to go. Thanks again for your assistance.
Tian Hattingh
I'm too blessed to be stressed
Kenneth Greifer
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

If you are willing to consider a very unusual alternative translation of Micah 5:1 and the word usually translated as "his origins" or "his goings forth", you could look at my self-published book's excerpts in Volume 4, pages 28 (bottom) to 34. I think the quote is connected to Micah 4:8 and the word really says "his caused to go forth ones" (his brought forth ones) hophal feminine plural present tense or participle if you prefer that. I translate Micah 4:8 differently and show that it might be connected to Micah 5:1. These alternative translations are for people who like very unusual alternative translations.

I think Micah 5:1 could say "and will come (to) Bethlehem Ephrata a youth to be among the thousands of Judah. From you to Me, he will go forth to be a ruler in Israel, and his caused to go forth ones (his brought forth ones) are from the past, from days of old..."

5:1וְאַתָּ֞ה בֵּֽית־לֶ֣חֶם אֶפְרָ֗תָה צָעִיר֙ לִֽהְיוֹת֙ בְּאַלְפֵ֣י יְהוּדָ֔ה מִמְּךָ֙ לִ֣י יֵצֵ֔א לִֽהְי֥וֹת מוֹשֵׁ֖ל בְּיִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וּמוֹצָאֹתָ֥יו מִקֶּ֖דֶם מִימֵ֥י עוֹלָֽם׃

My site is http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/

I think the brought forth ones in Micah 5:1 are the daughter of Zion and the first government or kingdom that are mentioned in Micah 4:8.
Kenneth Greifer
Ruminator
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:09 am

Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by Ruminator »

Kenneth, I don't know Hebrew so I'm not qualified to evaluate your work. However, if anyone else here has some feedback I would love to hear it.

Congrats on completing your book!
---------------
William Ross
User avatar
SteveMiller
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:53 pm
Location: Detroit, MI, USA
Contact:

Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by SteveMiller »

Tian,
Good question on the BHS. I don't know the answer, but I'll give it a shot, and hopefully someone will comment who knows more and we can both learn.

From BibleWorks BHS Apparatus

footnote b:
b prb probabiliter dl dele(ndum) etc; delet, -ent etc, ex a‎δ
The bold stuff is BHS, and the other stuff is supplied by BibleWorks
prb means probably; dl means delete
so it means that the Hebrew word לִֽהְיֹות֙‌ should probably be deleted.
I don't know what the ex a‎δ means. Neither are in the Simplified Guide to BHS or the beginning of BHS.

footnote c:
c frt fortasse l lege(ndum) etc ‏יֶלֶד‎ cf confer(endum) etc 2a‎β; an exc excidit, -erunt etc vb verbum postיצא‎?
frt means possibly
l means to be read
cf is compare to
I don't know what 2a‎β is.
So the first part of footnote b means, Possibly the Hebrew word ‎ לִ֣י should be read as ‏יֶלֶד‎.
That doesn't make sense to me, so I probably have it wrong.

an means or
exc means dropped out
vb means word
post means after
So the 2nd part of footnote c means, Or a word was after ‏יצא‎, but dropped out.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)
Post Reply