Hi Jason,
Karl wrote that letter ו as V was inherit from Yiddish.
so I gave sources that show that the pronunciation of ו as V is not related to Yiddish (actually, should say Ashkenazi accent).
Jason Hare wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:56 am
ducky wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:02 am
I think that גב and גו is not a good exmaple to bring.
גב/גו/גוף are all from the same base.
You don't think it's significant that one author spells "back" as
גַּב gav and the other as
גַּו gav? I agree with you that the later authors are a good indicator, but they don't show what the pronunciation was 450 BCE or earlier, which is the only thing that Karl is interested in (according to his claims).
I think I don't understand you.
Do you claim that the letter ו was V in the biblical era?
I really don't think so, and maybe you can show me why you think that.
The ב in the biblcial era was B (the alternative V came later or at the end of this era).
So even if you want to say that the ו was V in the biblcial era, when you compare גו to גב in sounds, you actually say that the ו was was similar to B?
don't forget that the בומף are all from the lips. and thee can be a switch in the pronunciation.
I gave the example of גו/גב/גוף
So also גוף is in that group, and גו and גויה comes in the meaning of גוף as well.
But we won't say that the P of גוף sounded like the ו or the ב.
Jason Hare wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:56 am
Just to point out, we're talking about early times still. The Mishnah was completed near the end of the second century or as late as the mid-third century. It isn't a "medieval" document - just to preempt that accusation.
Yes, I was talking about the ו as V
And I wanted to show that already in the Mishnaic time there was evidence for that pronunciation.
(Also, just to clear things, I don't say that that was the only way, but I guess, this pronuncaition was).