How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

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Glenn Dean
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 6:28 pm

Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by Glenn Dean »

I'm stuck on Gen 1:2, but here's what I have so far:

From Gen 1:1:

בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית, H.F. = רִא|שִׁית
Explanation: on N syl, hireq lengthen to tsere

הָאָֽרֶץ, H.F. = אַרְץ
Explanation: First add a helping vowel to get אַ|רֶץ, then either harmonization/lengthing occurs (for segholate nouns), in our case lengthening happens to get אָ֫רֶץ, then as part of the normal rules for prefixing def art to aleph you add the הָ

From Gen 1:2:
תֹ֙הוּ֙, H.F. = תֻ|הוּ
Explanation: The N syl quibbits lengths to holem

תְה֑וֹם, H.F. = תְ|הוֹם (is that right? is the taw with the sheva correct)
Explanation: no changes occur from H.F. - in the near syl the sheva neither reduces nor lengthens!

Glenn
ducky
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Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by ducky »

Hi Glenn,

ראשית
The basic form of ראש is "qatl": רַאְשׁ.
So it would be "ra'shit"=רַאְשִׁית.
Then, from here, it was probably that the Aleph got a linking vowel (Hataph-Segol), and the R got a Segol vowel:
רֶאֱשִׁית which was turned to רֵאשִית

Why Segol...
The Aleph sometimes caused the vowel to be Segol (Segol is an allophone of Patah').
For example:
יֶאֱסֹף which the original patah' vowel of the י=Y is with Segol (because of the Aleph).
יַאְסֹף*->יֶאֱסֹף

Sometimes, The combination of אֱ ֶ turns to א ֵ
like the word לֶאֱלֹהֵינוּ*->לֵאלֹהֵינוּ.
(it starts with לֶאֱ and that combination turns to לֵא).
And so, we can assume:
רַאְשִׁית->רֶאֱשִׁית->רֵאשִׁית

***************
תהו
This is a "qutl" form
tuhw->tohuw (u->o: + linking vowel hw->huw)
tohuw->tohu: (diphthong uw->u:)

***************
תהום
We cannot start the form with a Mobile Sheva since this Sheva is always evolved from a previous vowel.

This word is based of form qita:l
tiha:m-> tiho:m (canaanite shift a:->o:)
tiho:m->t.ho:m (the short "i" was reduced to Sheva).
David Hunter
Glenn Dean
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Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by Glenn Dean »

Thanxs Ducky for all the great info! A ton to digest! Right now it's a wee-bit over my head, but I do appreciate you gathering up the great info!

Glenn
Jason Hare
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Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by Jason Hare »

You're running into some exceptional nouns already that require different explanations (like ducky has provided). Notice that the same forces that make the consonantal vav at the end of the historical form תהו turn into an unstressed shuruk also influenced the Tetragrammaton as it is attached to names, in which יהו had a consonantal vav at the end of the word after sheva, which created an accent shift and the turning of the vav into a shuruk. You can see Gesenius's discussion of this issue in 24d here. It's also addressed in 93x here.

That is, יַהְו at the end of a word (produced by the loss of the final vowel) had a consonant vav standing after the yah syllable (in which the heh was a consonant, not a vowel letter). That yahw was unresolved, and its resolution came by turning the vav into a vowel (shuruk) and redistributing the syllables. That is, yah|weh > yah|w > ya|hû. When this happens, the originally final closed syllable before the hanging semi-consonant became lengthened and stressed. yah|weh > yah|w > ya|hû > yā́|hû.

Compare: שַׂחְ|ו > שַׂ|חוּ > שָׂ֫חוּ ("swimming")
& תֻּהְ|ו > תֻּ|הוּ > תֹּ֫הוּ ("void")
& יִשְׁ|תַּחֲ|וֶה > יִשְׁתַּחְ|ו > יִשְׁ|תַּ|חוּ > וַיִּשְׁתָּ֫חוּ ("he bowed down" [vav-consecutive])
& יַהְ|וֶה > יַהְ|ו > יַ|הוּ > יָ֫הוּ (YHWH > -yahu)
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

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talmid56
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Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by talmid56 »

Could such a phenomenon, or a similar one, explain the yeho form at the beginning of theophoric names, i.e. yahweh or yahu becoming yeho? (Another theory is that the Massoretes developed the yeho pronunciation.)
Dewayne Dulaney
דואיין דוליני

Blog: https://letancientvoicesspeak.wordpress.com/

כִּ֤י שֶׁ֨מֶשׁ׀ וּמָגֵן֮ יְהוָ֪ה אֱלֹ֫הִ֥ים חֵ֣ן וְ֭כָבוֹד יִתֵּ֣ן יְהוָ֑ה לֹ֥א יִמְנַע־ט֝֗וֹב לַֽהֹלְכִ֥ים בְּתָמִֽים׃
--(E 84:11) 84:12 תהלים
ducky
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Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by ducky »

talmid56 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:27 pm Could such a phenomenon, or a similar one, explain the yeho form at the beginning of theophoric names, i.e. yahweh or yahu becoming yeho? (Another theory is that the Massoretes developed the yeho pronunciation.)
Hi Dewayne,

The MT vowels for the name of God don't come to represent the pronunciation of this name, but they come to represent the vowels of His other name which is read.

This name of God is not said by the Jews, and when this name comes, it is read: a-do-nay mostly, and sometimes e-lo-him

The vowels of:
1. Sheva
2. Holam
3. Qamats
are the vowels of the name a-do-nay
(Notice that Sheva=Hataph-Patah').

Sometimes, you'll see the vowels:
1. Sheva
2. Holam
3. Hiriq
and these are the vowels of e-lo-him
(Notice that Sheva=Hataph-Segol).

***
These vowels don't come to tell us the vowels of the name that is written, but it tells us to read it as His other name.
David Hunter
Isaac Fried
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Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by Isaac Fried »

talmid56 writes
Could such a phenomenon, or a similar one, explain the yeho form at the beginning of theophoric names, i.e. yahweh or yahu becoming yeho? (Another theory is that the Massoretes developed the yeho pronunciation.)
A good deal has been written about this in this forum over the years. Look for it.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
www.hebrewetymology.com
Jason Hare
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Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by Jason Hare »

talmid56 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:27 pm Could such a phenomenon, or a similar one, explain the yeho form at the beginning of theophoric names, i.e. yahweh or yahu becoming yeho? (Another theory is that the Massoretes developed the yeho pronunciation.)
Yes, Dewayne. Of course.

Assuming Yahweh (whether vav was pronounced as v or as w during the biblical period), I've already explained how the stand-alone vav at the end of the word switched to a vowel, which affected the pronunciation and accent of the name.

We can certainly expect yəhô- as a prefix with the reduction of the distant a vowel when the vav is again placed in a situation in which it is stand alone. In the following, I'm using | to mark syllable breaks.

yah|weh > yah|w (shortened form)
yah|w + naṯan > yah|w|na|ṯan > ya|hw|na|ṯan > yə|hô|nā|ṯān
yə| = distant reduced syllable
hô| = marked as historically long (doesn't reduce)
nā| = near lengthened syllable
ṯān = tone syllable (long)

At some point, the form yəhô- was fixed in such theophoric names. That is, it didn't depend on syllable distance and vowel lengths. It simply became the form yəhô- when attached to the beginning of a name and -yah or yā́hu when attached to the end of a name. Both forms are, however, predictable based on the assumption of Yahweh as the original pronunciation of the name.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
Jason Hare
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Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by Jason Hare »

ducky wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:04 pm
talmid56 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:27 pm Could such a phenomenon, or a similar one, explain the yeho form at the beginning of theophoric names, i.e. yahweh or yahu becoming yeho? (Another theory is that the Massoretes developed the yeho pronunciation.)
Hi Dewayne,

The MT vowels for the name of God don't come to represent the pronunciation of this name, but they come to represent the vowels of His other name which is read.

This name of God is not said by the Jews, and when this name comes, it is read: a-do-nay mostly, and sometimes e-lo-him

The vowels of:
1. Sheva
2. Holam
3. Qamats
are the vowels of the name a-do-nay
(Notice that Sheva=Hataph-Patah').

Sometimes, you'll see the vowels:
1. Sheva
2. Holam
3. Hiriq
and these are the vowels of e-lo-him
(Notice that Sheva=Hataph-Segol).

***
These vowels don't come to tell us the vowels of the name that is written, but it tells us to read it as His other name.
This is all, of course, completely true. It is convenient that the vowels of אֲדֹנָי and אֱלֹהִים were transferred onto the name יהוה as either יְהוָֹה or יְהוִֹה, but this is quite apart from the forms that became attached to "theophoric names." In יְהוָֹה, for instance, the vowel following the heh is technically just cholam, and the vav is consonantal (if read as written). It is not cholam-vav. This demonstrates the real difference between the theophoric names (in which ו w became וֹ ô) and the Tetragrammaton as printed (in which we have ◌ֹ ō [with no mater lectionis]).

N.b. In the Aleppo Codex, both אדני and יהוה are missing the cholam, as the impossible forms אֲדנָי and יְהוָה. Since there was potential ambiguity between אֲדֹנַי "my lords" and אֲדֹנָי "the LORD" (especially given the lengthening of patach to kamats in pausal forms), when אדני referred to God, the scribe made a visual distinction in the pointing and did not include the cholam (an aberrant 3% of extant instances in the Aleppo Codex do have the cholam – just as a low percentage of יהוה holds the cholam in even the strictest of manuscripts). This was the pointing that was transferred onto the Tetragrammaton.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
ducky
Posts: 509
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: How do you know a vowel reduces to sheva versus hatuf-pathach?

Post by ducky »

Hi Jason,

I guess my comment wasn't in its place. I read Dewayne's question wrong, and I thought it talked about the vowels of the name. So my comment would stay there as a general note.

Also, thanks for the additional information about the Allepo Codex' way. I remember that this issue came before and I commented the same way, and I also got the same additional info (maybe it was you also).

****
About the process you suggested...
Jason Hare wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:30 am yah|w + naṯan > yah|w|na|ṯan > ya|hw|na|ṯan > yə|hô|nā|ṯān
yə| = distant reduced syllable
hô| = marked as historically long (doesn't reduce)
nā| = near lengthened syllable
ṯān = tone syllable (long)
How come the W was turned into an ô?
I would expect it to turn into û?
(creating yə|hû|na|ṯan - because the W would push for the "u" sound, and then I don't see any reason for the û to turn to ô).

The only thing I can think about right now is that that yah"w got a linking vowel of "a" - creating a diphthong of "haw" which then turned into hô.
Somthing like:
yahw|na|ṯan > yahaw|na|ṯan -> yə|hô|nā|ṯān.

But I'm really don't sure about it because
1. Why would the "a" would come as a linking vowel?
Could be maybe because of the previous vowel "a" that would push that.
But then, why it is the vowel that pushed the W, and not the W that pushed the vowel (as I think is more to be expected).
But still, maybe.

2. Why would the linking vowel (to break the consonants combination) comes after the second letter H, and not after the third letter W.
In other cases like מלכישוע for example, the linking vowel comes after the third letter. (and if it came after the third letter, in our case: the "w", then it would be a "u" vowel, creating: "yahwunatan" - And then the "wu" would turn to û (once again "yehunatan").

But maybe it could be that pronouncing a not-voweled H after an "a vowel" would cause it to be pronounced as "a" (like we see it comes with Hataph-Patah'). And with that, the consonants-combination was broken naturally, creating the diphthong of "haw-->hô".

I am not sure about it. But this is what I have in my mind right now.
If I wrong, or if there is another explanation for the hô creation, I would like to see it.
David Hunter
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