no!stevenmiller wrote: thanks Jason! I take it that both the Chateph Qamets (qamets with sheva in front) and qamets chatuph sound like an "o" as in "hope".
no! this is confused!!jason wrote: Correct.
It's like the 'o' in the British pronunciation of "clock", or "dot" or "hop"(no e!) or "flop" or "mop" or "god".
Not "hope", "boat", etc.
The Chateph Qamets/hataf kamatz (qamets with sheva, so the compound shva) . and the "kamatz chatuph"(more simply known as the kamatz katan), are oh like the british pronunciation of clock.
This sound is almost non-existent in American English, so Americans often pronounce it wrongly.
(that is a great website, click the button to hear it spoken in UK pronunciation and you can contrast US pronunciation and you will see the issue!)
Look at the UK pronunciation of clock
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... lish/clock
Or the UK pronunciation of orange
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... ish/orange
Americans actually have to learn how to make this sound, because it's almost never used if at all.. So for example, making a circle with the mouth.
It is like the Sephardi Cholam.
The example of "hope" is not that at all. Interestingly, the Ashkenazi Cholam is like the 'o' in Hope.
And i've heard that the Yemenite pronunciation of Cholam is also like the ashkenazi pronunciation of Cholam.
Pratico and Pelt often try to reconstruct ancient pronunciation so for example they have a bible audio for their flashcards where for Adam they use the soft dalet, Atham. like the th in THe. (So the dalet without a dagesh, pronounced as yemenites would do dalet without dagesh). Whereas sephardim and ashkenazim have lost the distinction with dalet, and would do dalet the same with or without dagesh,glenn wrote:in Pratico & Pelt they indicate to pronounce the hateph qamets as the "a" sound you hear in the word "commit"
For hataph patach they have some latin characters for hataph patach, hatach segol and hataph kamatz. And for cholam.. they do them all differently..(a different latin letter to represent the pronunciation of each of those..), Maybe they're right..
But sephardi and modern hebrew do the kamatz katan like the hataph patach. But pratico do a more reconstructed academic ancient pronunciation.