Lamoh - what is the parsing of that word? (last word of Isaiah 53:8)

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ralph
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Re: Lamoh - what is the parsing of that word? (last word of Isaiah 53:8)

Post by ralph »

ducky wrote: 1. Job 22:2 הַלְאֵ֥ל יִסְכָּן־גָּ֑בֶר כִּֽי־יִסְכֹּ֖ן עָלֵ֣ימוֹ מַשְׂכִּֽיל
In this case, in my opinion, the עלימו is plural (and shouldn't be on the "naughty list").
It is to be compared with another verse in this chapter.
Job 22:21 הַסְכֶּן־נָ֣א עִמּ֣וֹ וּשְׁלָ֑ם בָּ֝הֶ֗ם
The בהם and the עלימו refer to the same thing.
(and once again, I don't see it forced at all).
Thanks , that's very informative.. I would like to just look at one of the examples under discussion for now..


Let's look at Job 22:2 and Job 22:21

Job 22:2 הַלְאֵל יִסְכָּן-גָּבֶר-- כִּי-יִסְכֹּן עָלֵימוֹ מַשְׂכִּיל.

"“Can a man be of benefit to God? Can even a wise person benefit him?" (NIV) {note- JPS 1917 and 1985 also has him}. So those three translations put Alaimoh עָלֵימוֹ as him/singular.

How can you put "them" there?

You compare to Job 22:21

Job 22:21 הַסְכֶּן-נָא עִמּוֹ וּשְׁלָם; בָּהֶם, תְּבוֹאַתְךָ טוֹבָה

“Now acquaint yourself with Him, and be at peace; Thereby good will come to you." NKJV

"Be close to Him and wholehearted; Good things will come to you thereby." JPS 1985


Well, the translations are interpreting it as singular..and a reference to God.

How are you interpreting it as "them", what does the verse even mean to you to say "them"?

Are you thinking that hebrew is using a plural of majesty pronoun (does hebrew even use plural of majesty pronouns?), to refer to God?

Or are you thinking it's "them" but it's something other than God?

Thanks
Ralph Zak
ducky
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Lamoh - what is the parsing of that word? (last word of Isaiah 53:8)

Post by ducky »

Hi,

The first verse can be understood in a few ways.
By two parallel parts.
By rhetorical question and an answer.
By one sentence.
Also by seeing the משכיל as someone that comes to judge.
And so on.

NIV translation above writes it in parallel. So the עלימו refers to God (unless I don't understand their translation).
Plural of majesty is used in Hebrew (and I think that also in this thread we wrote a few).
And in this case, when the word עלימו refers to God - then it is one example.

In my post, I gave another opinion, which the עלימו is indeed plural, and refers to the laws of God, or the ways of God.
With the meaning of (something like) "stick to his laws".

And then, in verse 21, the word בהם is also about the laws.
"by them, good will come to you"
(by them/for them/because of them).

Both verses start with the singular and move to the plural. First about God, and later about his laws.
It is like the second part explains the meaning of the first part.
(I mean, when someone says "stick to God", the actual meaning is to stick to his laws).

The translations above of the second verse don't translate the word בהם as singular, but as "thereby"
(not singular and not plural - just like saying "with that/by that/for that/because of that").
David Hunter
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