Jason Hare wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:24 pm
Show me where
צבא means "to gather people/forces together," in a transitive sense. I don't see that. This is where not knowing the difference between qal and hiphil causes problems.
Hallo Jason,
Ok, simply put, in a walnut shell, there are no qal verbs of this
לִצְבֹּ֥א used in a transitive way that mean 'to assemble'. I found however two cases of Qal used intransitively: 1 Sam 2:22 and Exodus 38:8, and no doubt there are a few more where the word means an assembly or assembled. In discussing the verb I am ignoring the hundreds of places where
צְבֹּ֥א is translated into English as
'going to war' when it is clearly a noun, where it should be translated as Men
'of War' for example, also happens with the word
הַמִּלְחָמָ֗ה. Also where it means a service or performance in relation to the Levitical side of things.
Now then, points I noted:
1. There are hundreds of
going to fight verses where the verb
יִלָּחֵ֣ם is employed. Compare this to only Five places where
לִצְבֹּ֥א is used and notice where three of them are: two in 29:7 and one in 31:4. Then two more in Zech 14:12 and Isaiah 19:2.
2. There are only two Hiphils in scripture : 2 Kings 25:19 and Jeremiah 52:25 which is a repetition anyway, so there is only one hiphil essentially meaning 'the host' the scribe who recorded things about the army I presume?
3. I believe there is a good reason why
צְבֹּ֥א might be chosen over
מִּלְחָמָ֗ה and maybe instead of men of war going to physically fight abattle to kill, they are simply a mixture of ordinary non-combatants and maybe military men thrown in to threaten as well, and these non-combatants prepared and willing and desiring to fight with words and taunts and accusations and lies, a gathering is not meant I agree, but there is an implicit reference to a gathering of multitudes because waging war is not always about drawing a sword or firing a gun is it.
4. It is improbable and highly unlikely that
עַל goes with
יֵרֵד֙ based on the fact that
לִצְבֹּ֥א as far as I can tell, Always always is used in relation to this preposition. Also the Qal of this verb 'to fight' has never been used in the sense of 'to fight
for'. It is always, to go out
against.
My conclusion is this: Verse 4 implies the Lord comes down to fight by assembling a gathering against Jerusalem. In defending it He will keep it from being destroyed and He will deliver it from the enemy within, in delivering it He will pass over it keeping it protected (as in Pesach) and continue to preserve it during the ongoing conflict beyond its walls and city limits. The ongoing conflict is implied by the parable of the Lion in verse 4 so there is a hostile army involved. Isaiah Ch 29:3 implies the Lord
gathering against Jerusalem as well, to deliver it. And I believe that there is a strong possible connection between ch 29 and ch 31 of Isaiah.
Now I have discussed the hebrew and grammar the best that I can, but the object is to understand the mesaage. And prophecy is history fortold. The grammar and the words used are very distinctly and very uniquely put. That is why I asked questions. It begged questions to be asked.
Chris watts