The Kaph in Isa 18:4

[Chris Watts]

וְאַבִּ֣יטָה בִמְכוֹנִ֑י כְּחֹ֥ם צַח֙ עֲלֵי־א֔וֹר כְּעָ֥ב טַ֖ל בְּחֹ֥ם קָצִֽיר׃

According to franz Delitzsch: "...The two Caphs in ver. 4 are not comparative, but are indicative of time". However according to my grammar books, especially Arnold and Choi, they can only be Temporal (with the ifinitive construct), Correspondence or Agreement.

Peculiarly even before I read this I "felt"? a sense of 'time' rather than comparison, but obviously Feelings are way out of line here. Rather than the emphasis being on the heat of summer, the emphasis is on the time of summer itself, its season. Or am I way off mark here?

chris watts

[ducky]

It is all about how the verse is read and understood.
There are a few ways to understand its second part, and with that how the translation goes.

I wonder how does he translate it.

[Chris Watts]

It is all about how the verse is read and understood.
There are a few ways to understand its second part, and with that how the translation goes.

I wonder how does he translate it.

He writes: "...I will be still and will look on upon my throne during clear heat in sunshine, during dew clouds in the harvest glow...." He is using the word "During" instead of "as" or "like".

Chris watts

[ducky]

I don't see it right.
It is not a natural reading.
also, it also doesn't fit - not every K is about "during"
usually, it would come before an infinite or like that.
But here it just doesn't fit.

**
Also, what is the point of his translation?
God sits and waits in the "heat and in the cold"?
the descriptions of the heat and cold are surely symbolic - it is not about a physical "winter and summer".
If he tranlsates it like that, then what is the meaning of this.

So I also don't understand it in the literal way, and also not in the meaning way.

[Chris Watts]

I don't see it right.

Also, what is the point of his translation?

So I also don't understand it in the literal way, and also not in the meaning way.

Hallo David,

Ok, would I be wrong in assuming, especially from your other posts, that English s not your first language? Fogive me please if I am mistaken.

When he says "I will look on" This is another way of saying : "I will consider" So that is ok.

<<<<<<God sits and waits in the "heat and in the cold"?
the descriptions of the heat and cold are surely symbolic - it is not about a physical "winter and summer".>>>>>>

Now then, This in one sense is symbolic of a waiting period and at the same time is a prelude to what follows when the scripture says that God will cut down everything just at the time that the fruit appears and the harvest is ripening. For me this symbolizes that the Lord will allow things to develop right up to a point when it looks like something will succeed and then suddenly, He will put a stop to it. Bt more importantly God will not interfere with he harvest, He will allow it to proceed but will not allow it to be gathered. transferring this to the practical, well I would have to delve into interpretation, suffice it to say that this is not really permitted.

That fact that God says He will consider and take his rest while things are ripening is in itself a period of waiting, so waiting is both implicitly demonstrated and then explicitly spoken. And my feelings when I first read this in the Hebrew were thrown when I saw the 'Kaph'. But grammar is fluid sometimes, especially in a foreign language when we approach it with our English ears and concepts of meaning. So while all the grammar books box this Kaph in as to meaning what it does, grammatically, they are right. However maybe thete was no word for "During" in Biblical heberw within this context. I am no educated Hebraist and I certainly have a great disadvantage in not being learned in hebrew nuance and grammatical principles. But I hope this clarifies Delitzsch's translation for you.

My original post on this was to clarify whether i was correct.

Chris watts

[ducky]

Hi Chris,

I did understand you before.
You are right, this is not my native language, but I'm improving slowly.

Anyway, I don't want to get into the way you understand the metaphor. There are a few nice ways to see it, and it doesn't matter for the subject.

It is hard (for me) to read it as "during".

When the K acts as referring to time, it would usually come with an infinitive that represents an act.
(close to How the English "as" is used in the meaning of "when/while").

And also, even if try to read it as "during", the style of the rest of the verse doesn't seem to me that fits this meaning.

****
Maybe If you can bring more info about why he reads it that way...
I'm just interested to know his view.

[Jason Hare]

You are right, this is not my native language, but I'm improving slowly.

הלוואי וכולנו היינו כותבים ומדברים עברית ברמת האנגלית שלך, חבר!‏

[Jason Hare]

I don't get it. Have you not considered that חֹם is simply a noun meaning "heat"?

[Jason Hare]

I don't think this should be read other than how we read Genesis 18:1:

וַיֵּרָ֤א אֵלָיו֙ יְהוָ֔ה בְּאֵלֹנֵ֖י מַמְרֵ֑א וְה֛וּא יֹשֵׁ֥ב פֶּֽתַח־הָאֹ֖הֶל כְּחֹ֥ם הַיֹּֽום׃

The kaf here means that it was in the hot time of the day. You should render it as a gloss "according to" and then see what sense it takes.

"And he [was] sitting [at] the entrance to the tent according to the heat of the day."

So, yes, I'd take it as a time reference, but I wouldn't take חֹם as an infinitive construct.

[ducky]

Hi Jason, Thanks

The word חם in כחום היום is infinitive.

***
I would like to read the argument that reads this verse with the meaning of "K=during".
Maybe it would change my view on that.