kwrandolph wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:03 pm
Chris Watts wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:10 pm
Trust you to crawl out of the quagmire by referring to a document written by Adam.
chris watts
And what do you mean by that? Is that a faith statement?
Karl W. Randolph.
Adam to Moses maybe 2500 years - that is a very long time for a piece of paper to last, unless of course there were many scribes after Adam continually copyying his original to end up just in the nick of time for Noah. Thousands of unknown parameters and a darn huge flood. And you think that Moses took a scroll on board written by Adam? Oh and that poor soul, that poor faithful soul to God's word who kept Adam's words faithfully and managed to travel from somewhere far away or maybe close to Noah, passed the scroll onto Noah but that last scribe was condemned to death and drowned, refused permission to enter the Ark for some unknown reason.
The only cceptable explanation for what Moses wrote was the good old tried and tested method of Father to son, generation to generation story of faith and story telling to pass on history. And I still insist that Moses uesed participles to refer to the present of his day, not something that was gone and lost forever, otherwise he definitely would have phrased it in such a way as to leave us with no misunderstanding as he did in Genesis 6:4 when he used the contextual and qal perfect to refer to the past.........
הַנְּפִלִים הָיוּ בָאָרֶץ בַּיָּמִים הָהֵם
As for literary evidence you will have to explain this one please since it would be fair for me to know what you are referring to.
So the only way out of this is to say Adam wrote it? Did Adam write about Assyria and Cush? What about Moses referring to the fact that there is Gold and Bedillium and Onyx in the land of Havilah? Havilah, Asshur and Cush were placed between these rivers meaning that while geographical and geological features would have changed in some parts and the intensity of change varied considerably, the fact remains that the basic structure remained intact within this region and the rivers could still be identified even if there were slight shifts in flows or whatever. For example, maybe the Red Sea could have formed a part of the Pison albeit narrower who knows? Verse 14 Moses places Hiddekel East of Assyria, clearly a geographical position and hardly something Adam would have written.
My original comment that ignited this and the issue I am interested in is Cush and his history and his geographical dispersion, this is what I am researching at the moment, (this being started by passages in scripture that refer to Cush in ways that ignite a question about its geographical location within that particular context of scripture and for a moment I needed to know the language differences) and it became clear from sources both biblical and extra-biblical that Cush was NOT only a geographical land in East Africa south Egypt in the days of Isaiah and Jeremiah, but that it also could refer to the Cush of Babylonia and Assyria and Midian, descendants of Cush were first settled throughout the region of the Euphrates and Tigirs, some moved and settled in Midian and Yemen and eventually moved to what we now call Sudan and Ethiopia, but Ethiopia is NOT Cush as many biblical commentators insist - I was brought up on this for years. My other observation that Cush, Assyria and Havillah are mentioned, Cush as the African Cush was not the land meant in Genesis 2, but Babylonia, Midian and Yemen areas were the lands referred to when Cush was mentioned.
So while I do not mind to discuss the Four Rivers of Gen 2, I want to stay on topic also.
A Sidenote : This is one article I managed to dig up quickly, The point here is that while it does not exist today, the idea that these rivers still surrounded the known biblical areas are of interest. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... ian-river/
Just dug this up as well, have not read it yet but will later.
https://books.google.ie/books?id=c2_oDQ ... ia&f=false
Chris Watts