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Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:11 am
by briceg
I am a seminary student and in some of my assignments, I translate English to Hebrew.

Are there guidelines in picking the prepositional or pronominal forms to use when there are options?

For instance when do we use the maqqef form versus the inseparable form of מִנ? Or use הֵמ rather than הֵמָה?

Re: Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:58 am
by Jason Hare
There’s no difference between מִן־הַשָּׁמַ֫יִם and מֵהַשָּׁמַ֫יִם. You can choose to use either one. הֵ֫מָּה (notice the dagesh) is far rarer than הֵם.

One thing that is NECESSARY, though, is the use of final forms. You cannot write שמימ and מנ. You must use the final mem and nun and write שמים and מן.

Re: Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:59 am
by briceg
Thank you for that. And yes, I need to consult my keyboard layout for those final forms.

Re: Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:55 pm
by S_Walch
The following has handy info for the beginning Hebrew typer:

http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... ebrew.html

Re: Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:14 am
by bdenckla
If you are translating to vocalized-but-not-cantillated Biblical Hebrew, I wonder whether it is appropriate to use maqaf at all on words like מִן. I say this because I tend to think of maqaf in Biblical Hebrew as part of the system of cantillation, not vocalization, inasmuch as those two systems can be separated. (Formally speaking, they cannot be separated, since there are cases in which the cantillation influences the vocalization, but for many purposes it is useful to think of them as two separate systems.)

So, for example in בראשית ב,ו (Genesis 2:6) we have מִן־הָאָ֑רֶץ a maqaf compound cantillated with etnaxta.

But removing the etnaxta and writing מִן־הָאָרֶץ looks a little weird to my eyes, looking a little like "from-the_earth" in English. (Here I have to invent a form of English where the article "the" is attached to the noun with an underscore, to show what I mean.)

In other words, in non-cantillated Hebrew, one would expect the maqaf to be used only in situations similar to those where a dash would be used in English.

So, if you are tasked with translating "from the earth" to vocalized-but-not-cantillated Biblical Hebrew, to me מִן הָאָרֶץ would be the way to go.

Re: Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:18 am
by Jason Hare
I disagree with that. It seems perfectly right to me to write מִן־הָאָרֶץ makes perfect sense, since the chirik in מִן is short and shouldn’t stand alone. To me, this helps mark long and short vowels and transcends the needs of cantillation. If you don’t include vowels at all, I can understand leaving the makaf off of it.

Re: Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:34 am
by bdenckla
I guess one of the problems in resolving this question is AFAIK there isn't a large body of vocalized-but-not-cantillated Hebrew text, from which we could try to figure out what the maqaf conventions (if any) were.

I have heard that modern children's books in Hebrew are sometimes (often?) written with vowels? So, I wonder what, if any, their conventions are, surrounding use of maqaf.

Also of course there are siddurim (prayerbooks). Those could be more relevant to the original question than children's books since of course many prayers use Biblical phrases or even entire Biblical passages, particularly from Tehillim (Psalms).

Re: Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:15 am
by bdenckla
Here's one data point about the role of maqaf in "VbnC" ("vocalized but not cantillated") text. (Many data points would have to be collected to get a sense of what conventions, if any, exist about the use of maqaf in such texts.).

In a "random" Artscroll siddur I happen to have, the Psalms at the back are VbnC and do not use maqaf, or at least certainly do not use it with anything like the frequency with which it appears in full (cantillated) versions of the text.

I created a GitHub Gist to show some relevant images, since I don't think I can directly include or attach images here:

https://gist.github.com/bdenckla/d5bf00 ... d3ae160d7d

Re: Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:37 am
by Jason Hare
Notice, though, that modern Hebrew ignores vowel lengths. For its purposes, דִּיבֶּר is perfectly acceptable, just like מְדוּבֶּ֫רֶת. If we are concerned with vowel lengths (and biblical Hebrew does display such a concern), we should be aware that מִן is necessarily joined to the word that follows it and bares a short vowel (min-), whereas writing it without a makaf would produce a situation in which we would expect a long vowel (mīn-). If we’re talking about biblical Hebrew, we would not allow דִּיבֶּר (with a long vowel in a closed, unaccented syllable) or מִן (since this word intentionally has a short vowel, as opposed to מִין mîn “kind, type”).

Re: Maqqef vs inseparable, and choices in pronouns

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:37 pm
by bdenckla
Thanks Jason, I see now that I was ignoring your point about vowel length. I see now that the more refined question is what maqaf marks need to be retained in order to still obey the rules of Biblical Hebrew. In this sense perhaps maqaf straddles the vocalization and cantillation systems, providing an example of how these systems cannot easily be separated.

I.e., some maqaf marks are presumably "just for cantillation," i.e., they can be dropped without forming "illegal" words. But some cannot just be dropped thusly.