pronunciation of vocal simple shva, in biblical hebrew

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ralph
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:20 am

pronunciation of vocal simple shva, in biblical hebrew

Post by ralph »

I have a question about the pronunciation of vocal simple shva, in biblical hebrew

e.g. Y-rushalayim,

is it Yeru (like a segol), or Yuh-ru(like the uh in banana). Or Yiru(like a chirik). ?

I understand that the Septuagint placenames, being transliterated, can help to indicate how biblical hebrew pronunciation is.

Does ancient greek contain all three of those sounds within its total sounds? (those three, the uh in the first syllable of banana-buh-nana, the segol, and the chirik).

And which does it use for Jerusalem/Y-rushalayim?

Thanks
Ralph Zak
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Jason Hare
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Re: pronunciation of vocal simple shva, in biblical hebrew

Post by Jason Hare »

Most would go with the sound of segol in the first syllable of יְרוּשָׁלִַם / יְרוּשָׁלַ֫יִם.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
ralph
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Re: pronunciation of vocal simple shva, in biblical hebrew

Post by ralph »

You keep ignoring the term "biblical" and talking about modern israeli hebrew, and without saying that that's what you're doing, though that is what you are doing (And what you say re modern israeli hebrew isn't really accurate, since as pointed out elsewhere by others, some in modern hebrew do it like a chirik, and some may well do it like the uh in banana, but anyhow).

I asked about biblical hebrew, and I asked about ancient greek in helping to determine the pronunciation of it

I am hoping, that on a biblical hebrew forum, when I ask specifically about biblical hebrew in the subject, i'd get responses that take seriously that i'm asking specifically re biblical hebrew
Ralph Zak
kwrandolph
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Re: pronunciation of vocal simple shva, in biblical hebrew

Post by kwrandolph »

ralph wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:25 am I am hoping, that on a biblical hebrew forum, when I ask specifically about biblical hebrew in the subject, i'd get responses that take seriously that i'm asking specifically re biblical hebrew
The problem, Zak, is that we don’t know what was the pronunciation of Biblical Hebrew. We have evidence that the pronunciation changed by the first century, and continued to change until the time of the Masoretes.

If you want to talk about Masoretic pronunciation, that’s a different story, and I’m not about to get into an argument about that.

Karl W. Randolph.
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Jason Hare
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Re: pronunciation of vocal simple shva, in biblical hebrew

Post by Jason Hare »

ralph wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:25 am You keep ignoring the term "biblical" and talking about modern israeli hebrew, and without saying that that's what you're doing, though that is what you are doing (And what you say re modern israeli hebrew isn't really accurate, since as pointed out elsewhere by others, some in modern hebrew do it like a chirik, and some may well do it like the uh in banana, but anyhow).

I asked about biblical hebrew, and I asked about ancient greek in helping to determine the pronunciation of it

I am hoping, that on a biblical hebrew forum, when I ask specifically about biblical hebrew in the subject, i'd get responses that take seriously that i'm asking specifically re biblical hebrew
To me, “biblical Hebrew” refers to the form of the language during the period in which the Bible was composed. It doesn’t refer to a style of pronunciation, since we have only clues about how people used to pronounce things. I use the pronunciation of the modern state of Israel to read biblical Hebrew (the written language). This is extremely common to do, and it allows Hebrew users around the globe to communicate about and in the language clearly. If you were asking about an historical reconstruction of how speakers of Hebrew would have sounded 3,000 or so years ago, I would have ignored the question. I don’t put too much stock in reconstructed pronunciations. “Biblical Hebrew” is the language of the Bible, no matter how people think it should be read aloud.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
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