right translation of Daniel 9:25

[Danielkim]

Hello people.

I would like to ask any of you if this translation is better or proper.

"know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem unto the messiah...."

as you can see I used the word "return" instead of "restore".

the reason I used the word "return" is because of Jeremiah 29:10

"....in causing you to return to this place(Jerusalem)"

Both Jeremiah 29:10 and Daniel 9:25 are in kind of Same Context and same word in hebrew language.

Could you please Let me know if my translation of Daniel 9:25 is OK in grammar and context.

I am trying to figure out if the commandment in Dan 9:25 includes the action of going back to Jerusalem.

the concept of "Return" to Jerusalem is very obvious in old testament. Psalm 126 also shows same concept.

please help me if any of you knows hebrew language better than me.

thank you.

[George Athas]

First, please include a signature at the end of your posts.

Second, I commend to you an article I wrote on these verses. It can be found here:

http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_104.pdf

Cheers!

[Danielkim]

thank you for your answer. I have still one question. but I don't know how I can get a hold of you.
kwhyuk@gmail.com
I would like to know if 'shuv' in Jeremiah 29:10 is also third feminine singular.
how about the 'shuv' in pasalm 126? there are two 'shuv's. are they also third femine singular?
I think Gabriel is talking to the Israel Nation as a woman.
please help me If I am right?
thank you

[George Athas]

Again, please include a signature with your messages, as per the forum rules.

[George Athas]

Jer 29.10 uses שׁוב in the infinitive absolute. As such, it is not marked for person, gender, or number. However, the speaker addresses the audience in the second masculine plural, evidence by the 2mp suffixes used in the verse.

Ps 126 uses the root שׁוב many times, including in infinitive and imperative forms. I don't think there is ever a time that the 3fs is used, but I haven't looked very closely. Do you have particular verses in mind?

[Danielkim]

Hi, thank you for your help.

here are some example of verses I would like to check.
(1) 2nd king 19:21 : the virgin daughter of Zion
(2) Jeremiah 14:17 the virgin daughter of my people
(3) Jeremiah 18:13 the virgin of Israel have done terrible thing
(4) Jeremiah 31:4 O virgin of Israel

Could you check if these verses used 3fs verbs.

thank you.

Daniel Kim.
Servant of the Lord
Seoul,Republic of Korea

[SteveMiller]

Hello people.

I would like to ask any of you if this translation is better or proper.

"know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem unto the messiah...."

as you can see I used the word "return" instead of "restore".

the reason I used the word "return" is because of Jeremiah 29:10

"....in causing you to return to this place(Jerusalem)"

Daniel,
The Hebrew word is the same in both Jer 29:10 and Dan 9:25. The verb form is hiphil, which is causative.
The normal meaning is "to cause to return" or "bring back", which is how it is translated in Jer 29:10, but this translation doesn't work so well in Dan 9:25 because the direct object is Jerusalem.

You could translate it as "... the commandment to bring back and to build Jerusalem .." or "... the commandment to cause the return of and to build Jerusalem", but that is strange English, and it would be better to say, "restore" than "bring back" or "cause the return of".

Your translation of Dan 9:25 is not correct because you are translating the hiphil לְהָשִׁיב as if it was the non-causative qual לָשׁ֣וּב.

I am trying to figure out if the commandment in Dan 9:25 includes the action of going back to Jerusalem.

I think it does have that meaning. "to cause the return of Jerusalem" means to repopulate Jerusalem with Israelites.
Or it could mean to return Jerusalem to the Jews.

[SteveMiller]

here are some example of verses I would like to check.
Could you check if these verses used 3fs verbs.

(1) 2nd king 19:21 : the virgin daughter of Zion

בָּזָ֙ה despised is 3fs
לָעֲגָ֣ה mocked is 3fs
הֵנִ֔יעָה shook is 3fs

(2) Jeremiah 14:17 the virgin daughter of my people

נִשְׁבְּרָ֗ה is broken is 3fs

(3) Jeremiah 18:13 the virgin of Israel have done terrible thing

עָשְׂתָ֣ה has done is 3fs

(4) Jeremiah 31:4 O virgin of Israel

וְֽנִבְנֵ֔ית and you shall be built is 2fs
תַּעְדִּ֣י you shall be adorned is 2fs
וְיָצָ֖את you shall go forth is 2fs

[Danielkim]

Is there anybody can give me information where I can get online hebrew calendar showing upto 1000BC minimum.
I am looking for reliable jewish calendar.
because I want to know when Jesus actually died and also want to know how old the earth is.
please help me. web addresses please.
thank you


Daniel Kim.
servant of the Lord.
south Korea

[SteveMiller]

I don't think such a reliable calendar exists.
Here is Martin Anstey's chronology, http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1 ... mance.html, which is his interpretation.

For the age of the earth, I don't think the Bible tells us the age of the earth, but it does tell us the age of mankind. Bible Chronology goes back to Gen 1:3, when God said, Let there be light. That was the one day, which was the 1st of the 7 days of creation and the beginning of Bible Chronology. But God created the earth in Gen 1:1 which was before that. The Bible doesn't say how long before that it was.