Besides the Mesha Stele and the Qumran texts, is the language of Biblical Hebrew basically just recorded in the Bible? Was there a parallel secular literary movement?kwrandolph wrote:The popcorn style of reading, jumping around from place to place, can lead to some passages, some books, read extensively over and over again, while other passages or even whole books neglected, maybe never read once. That can also lead to misunderstanding of how the grammar works. There were questions discussed on this list where a relatively obscure passage could give an answer, but unless a person reads the whole text completely through, he may miss it.
Some questions about Psalm 96
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- Stephen Hughes
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:53 am
Re: Some questions about Psalm 96
Stephen Hughes BA (Greek), BTh, MA (Egyptology)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)
- Ken M. Penner
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Re: Some questions about Psalm 96
You're on the right track. There are inscriptions, Ben Sira, and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
St. Francis Xavier University
St. Francis Xavier University
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- Posts: 1540
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Re: Some questions about Psalm 96
No, none surviving from the Biblical era. There were a few letters and inscriptions, but that’s about it besides the Bible.Stephen Hughes wrote: Besides the Mesha Stele and the Qumran texts, is the language of Biblical Hebrew basically just recorded in the Bible? Was there a parallel secular literary movement?
Ben Sira, Qumran and similar are from long after Biblical Hebrew ceased being spoken as a native tongue. Non-Biblical Qumran were already Mishnaic Hebrew, which had a decidedly different grammar and somewhat different vocabulary from Biblical Hebrew.
Karl W. Randolph.
- Ken M. Penner
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Re: Some questions about Psalm 96
The above claim is true for only two out of hundreds of documents: 4QMMT and the Copper Scroll. Qumran Hebrew is closer to Late Biblical Hebrew than to Mishnaic Hebrew.kwrandolph wrote: Non-Biblical Qumran were already Mishnaic Hebrew, which had a decidedly different grammar and somewhat different vocabulary from Biblical Hebrew.
I confirmed the unusual verbal system of 4QMMT in my dissertation, "Verb Form Semantics in Qumran Hebrew Texts: Tense, Aspect, and Modality between the Bible and the Mishnah."
Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
St. Francis Xavier University
St. Francis Xavier University
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- Posts: 1540
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:51 am
Re: Some questions about Psalm 96
Ken:
Unlike you, I’ve never studied Mishnaic Hebrew, so mostly what I say about it is hearsay from others. The same is true of Qumran Hebrew, where the hearsay I heard previously was that Qumran and Mishnaic Hebrews share features not found in Biblical Hebrew, especially in grammar.
Karl W. Randolph.
Unlike you, I’ve never studied Mishnaic Hebrew, so mostly what I say about it is hearsay from others. The same is true of Qumran Hebrew, where the hearsay I heard previously was that Qumran and Mishnaic Hebrews share features not found in Biblical Hebrew, especially in grammar.
It depends on how much the Qumran documents quote Tanakh. I read parts of a couple of Qumran documents where almost every sentence I recognized from having read them in Tanakh. But those documents that don’t quote Tanakh feel very different, foreign.Ken M. Penner wrote:The above claim is true for only two out of hundreds of documents: 4QMMT and the Copper Scroll. Qumran Hebrew is closer to Late Biblical Hebrew than to Mishnaic Hebrew.kwrandolph wrote: Non-Biblical Qumran were already Mishnaic Hebrew, which had a decidedly different grammar and somewhat different vocabulary from Biblical Hebrew.
Is there any place on line where one can read these documents transcribed into modern square characters? I find trying to read the Qumran handwriting rather difficult. I find reading archaic Hebrew easier. I’m willing to put up with reading individual verses in the Isaiah scroll to check against the consonantal MT, but I lose the flow of the language when trying to read whole texts because of the difficulty of deciphering the handwriting.Ken M. Penner wrote:I confirmed the unusual verbal system of 4QMMT in my dissertation, "Verb Form Semantics in Qumran Hebrew Texts: Tense, Aspect, and Modality between the Bible and the Mishnah."
Karl W. Randolph.
- Ken M. Penner
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:31 pm
Re: Some questions about Psalm 96
Getting the texts in print is best. You can read parts of some of them in Google Books, at http://books.google.ca/books?id=6RfYxgt ... &q&f=falsekwrandolph wrote:Is there any place on line where one can read these documents transcribed into modern square characters?
Also, if you know the exact line you want, you can get it at biblia.com. For example,
http://biblia.com/books/brdsssehe/DSSSE.1QS_Col._i$3A1 gets you the scroll 1QS, column i, line 1
change the 1QS, i, and 1 (after the $3A), to get other texts. The labeling gets trickier when a column has to be reconstructed from fragments.
Similarly, http://biblia.com/books/qsm/QSM.1QS_1$3A1 will get you the same text by a different editor.
Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
St. Francis Xavier University
St. Francis Xavier University
- Stephen Hughes
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:53 am
Re: Moving on with verses 10b ff
Psalm 96:10b wrote:אַף־תִּכּ֣וֹן תֵּ֭בֵל בַּל־תִּמּ֑וֹט יָדִ֥ין עַ֝מִּ֗ים בְּמֵישָׁרִֽים׃
- (1) What sort of time reference do תִּכּ֣וֹן and יָדִין have? Is the time reference ascertained from the verb-form itself, from the syntax or from the context?
(2) What is the force of the conjunction אַף here? Does it add something to the previous phrase, or does it start a new thought independent of the previous phrase.
Psalm 96:11 wrote:יִשְׂמְח֣וּ הַ֭שָּׁמַיִם וְתָגֵ֣ל הָאָ֑רֶץ יִֽרְעַ֥ם הַ֝יָּ֗ם וּמְלֹאֽוֹ׃
- (1) What form of the verb is יִשְׂמְח֣וּ, יִֽרְעַ֥ם, יַעֲלֹ֣ז, יְ֝רַנְּנ֗וּ ?
(3) Is וְתָגֵ֣ל one of instances where the infinitive carries the modality and person of the preceeding verb?
(4) What do you make of BDB's gloss
? Is the "in praise" part of that definition read in (inferred) from the context of THIS verse or is it intrinsic in the word meaning?BDB wrote:let the sea thunder (in praise...)
(5) Why is the initial letter of וּמְלֹאֽוֹ not a וְ ?
(6) Is מְלֹא a noun or something else?
Psalm 96:12 wrote:יַעֲלֹ֣ז שָׂ֭דַי וְכָל־אֲשֶׁר־בּ֑וֹ אָ֥ז יְ֝רַנְּנ֗וּ כָּל־עֲצֵי־יָֽעַר׃
- (7) What is the meaning of the explanation that שָׂ֭דַי is a rare original form of שָׂדֶה ? What caused it to become "unoriginal"?
(8) What is the force of the אָז here? If it is in the dictionary as an adverb, why does its meaning in so many of its glosses seem like a conjunction?
(9) יָֽעַר - wood (= "forest" or "timber")? What about the "honey" meanings? Is it trees close together makes a forest or that wood is a dense substance?
Psalm 96:13 wrote:לִפְנֵ֤י יְהוָ֨ה ׀ כִּ֬י בָ֗א כִּ֥י בָא֮ לִשְׁפֹּ֪ט הָ֫אָ֥רֶץ יִשְׁפֹּֽט־תֵּבֵ֥ל בְּצֶ֑דֶק וְ֝עַמִּ֗ים בֶּאֱמוּנָתֽוֹ׃
- (10) In the phrase לִפְנֵ֤י יְהוָ֨ה ׀ כִּ֬י בָ֗א is לְפָנִים temporal? Something like; "Before יהוה comes"? Or is it a common way of saying "In front of"? If it is spatial, how does trees of (the) wood being happy in front of God make more sense in Hebrew than it does(n't) in English?
(11) How does תֵּבֵל ≠ אֶרֶז (and possibly ≠ עַמִּים)?
(12) Is the main idea of אֱמוּנָה "consitency" or "reliability"?
Stephen Hughes BA (Greek), BTh, MA (Egyptology)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)