Some questions about Psalm 96

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Stephen Hughes
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I'll leave those participles alone for a bit, I think.

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Psalm 96:4 wrote:כִּ֥י גָ֘ד֤וֹל יְהוָ֣ה וּמְהֻלָּ֣ל מְאֹ֑ד נוֹרָ֥א ה֝֗וּא עַל־כָּל־אֱלֹהִֽים׃
SteveMiller wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:(1) I'm not quite sure what to make of the מ on the front of מְהֻלָּ֣ל here. Is it a prepostion or a suffix of some kind? Is is a shortened form of מִן?
The mem here is not a preposition. It makes the Pual verb a participle.
SteveMiller wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:(2) Is נוֹרָ֥א perhaps some kind of infinitive?
It is a Niphal participle.
Those seem like heavy sediments, so I'll let them flow on with the river for a while and I'm sure they'll precipitate out soon enough on their own.

The other points you have made in these 2 posts seem quite clear, and I'll take them as read.
Stephen Hughes BA (Greek), BTh, MA (Egyptology)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)
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Stephen Hughes
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Future plans after Psalm 96

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Ben Putnam wrote:Living Biblical Hebrew: Selected Readings with 500 Friends, available from the Biblical Language Center at the following link. http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/b ... al-hebrew/
Thank you for that Braxot. As you come to mention it, I took delivery of their Living Koine materials just before Christmas and am hoping to try them out over the next few weeks.

My study plan at present is to push through reading for a bit, then take a moment to recapitulate where my ignorance is greatest, following that learn a bit more then press on with reading another couple of dozen verses. I'll have a look at the sample lessons for Hebrew on Biblical Languages and perhaps scratch the course you've mentioned in for the next (or a future) 50 verse plan.
markofcain wrote:Additionally, here is a Jonah reader by the same author of the Ruth reader:

https://www.academia.edu/5446068/Readin ... ebrew_Text
I'm going to get through Psalm 96 in 4 steps, then try Psalm 151 (especially the parts not in the Septuagint). If that is manageable, I'll try 11QPs(a)154, otherwise it will be straight to Ruth 1. After that the rest of Ruth and Jonah, could be good, I guess. It'll be a discipline to use them fully, while trying not to rely too much on the aids. Thanks for the suggestions.
Stephen Hughes BA (Greek), BTh, MA (Egyptology)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Further questions about Psalm 96:7-10a

Post by Stephen Hughes »

I have a number of further questions for these next few verses too;
Psalm 96:7 wrote:הָב֣וּ לַ֭יהוָה מִשְׁפְּח֣וֹת עַמִּ֑ים הָב֥וּ לַ֝יהוָ֗ה כָּב֥וֹד וָעֹֽז׃
  • (1) Is the verb יהב Hebrew or Aramaic? Is it a conjectured form or an extant one?
    (2) What does it mean? The Aramaic dictionary says, "give", in what sense is that meant here?
Psalm 96:8 wrote:הָב֣וּ לַ֭יהוָה כְּב֣וֹד שְׁמ֑וֹ שְׂאֽוּ־מִ֝נְחָ֗ה וּבֹ֥אוּ לְחַצְרוֹתָֽיו׃
  • (3) Are the two words שְׂאֽוּ־מִ֝נְחָ֗ה joined with a dash because verb and object are actually together in this case? Is it because that is a rare occurance?
Psalm 96:9 wrote:הִשְׁתַּחֲו֣וּ לַ֭יהוָה בְּהַדְרַת־קֹ֑דֶשׁ חִ֥ילוּ מִ֝פָּנָ֗יו כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ׃
  • (4) Does the מִן in מִפָּנָ֗יו mean "in the direction of"?
    (5) Does הָאָֽרֶץ exclusively refer to Israel in the Hebrew OT?
Psalm 96:10a wrote:אִמְר֤וּ בַגּוֹיִ֨ם ׀ יְה֘וָ֤ה מָלָ֗ךְ
No questions for this.
Stephen Hughes BA (Greek), BTh, MA (Egyptology)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)
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SteveMiller
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Re: Further questions about Psalm 96:7-10a

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Stephen Hughes wrote:I have a number of further questions for these next few verses too;
Psalm 96:7 wrote:הָב֣וּ לַ֭יהוָה מִשְׁפְּח֣וֹת עַמִּ֑ים הָב֥וּ לַ֝יהוָ֗ה כָּב֥וֹד וָעֹֽז׃
  • (1) Is the verb יהב Hebrew or Aramaic? Is it a conjectured form or an extant one?
It is Hebrew. Aramaic is only used in the Bible in Daniel 2:4b-7:28; Ezra 4:8-6:18; 7:12-26; Jer 10:11; & Gen 31:47 for the words spoken by Laban.
It exists in the Hebrew Bible only in the qal (simple) imperative.
The Aramaic equivalent is used more extensively in the Aramaic portions of Daniel and Ezra.
Stephen Hughes wrote:(2) What does it mean? The Aramaic dictionary says, "give", in what sense is that meant here?[/list]
From looking at the 34 Hebrew uses, it seems to mean "pay what is due" Zech 11:12; Gen 29:21. Lexicons pretty much just say, "give", "ascribe" or "come".
Stephen Hughes wrote:
Psalm 96:8 wrote:הָב֣וּ לַ֭יהוָה כְּב֣וֹד שְׁמ֑וֹ שְׂאֽוּ־מִ֝נְחָ֗ה וּבֹ֥אוּ לְחַצְרוֹתָֽיו׃
  • (3) Are the two words שְׂאֽוּ־מִ֝נְחָ֗ה joined with a dash because verb and object are actually together in this case? Is it because that is a rare occurance?
The same sentence almost is in 1 Chron 16:29, where there is no dash.
The verb & object combo are also used in Jdg 3:18; 2Sam 8:2, 6; 1Chr 18:2, 6 - so it is not rare.
I have not seen much purpose in the MT dashes.

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Psalm 96:9 wrote:הִשְׁתַּחֲו֣וּ לַ֭יהוָה בְּהַדְרַת־קֹ֑דֶשׁ חִ֥ילוּ מִ֝פָּנָ֗יו כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ׃
  • (4) Does the מִן in מִפָּנָ֗יו mean "in the direction of"?
מִן does not mean that. I think here it means "due to" His presence.
(5) Does הָאָֽרֶץ exclusively refer to Israel in the Hebrew OT?[/list]
No. כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ normally means the whole earth unless qualified.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
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http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Some questions about Psalm 96

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SteveMiller wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:(1) Is the verb יהב Hebrew or Aramaic?
It is Hebrew.
What would I find it listed under in the dictionary?
SteveMiller wrote:
Stephen Hughes wrote:(5) Does הָאָֽרֶץ exclusively refer to Israel in the Hebrew OT?
No. כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ normally means the whole earth unless qualified.
Would "the whole earth" be sort of the Levant + Egypt? How far did their knowledge of geography extend at the time of the Second Temple?
Stephen Hughes BA (Greek), BTh, MA (Egyptology)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)
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Ben Putnam
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Re: Some questions about Psalm 96

Post by Ben Putnam »

Hi Stephen, did you notice their picture lessons too? Because of the methodology, these types of activities are of benefit even to BH professors who've been working with the language for decades, not just to beginning students, as they unlock something in the brain which makes the language more 'real' for a person and allows for more fluid comprehension, internalization, and retention of the language. A link to a demo is below.

http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/h ... st-lesson/

ברכות / Blessings,
Ben
Ben Putnam
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Stephen Hughes
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Questions about the Biblical Language Center materials

Post by Stephen Hughes »

Ben Putnam wrote:Hi Stephen, did you notice their picture lessons too? Because of the methodology, these types of activities are of benefit even to BH professors who've been working with the language for decades, not just to beginning students, as they unlock something in the brain which makes the language more 'real' for a person and allows for more fluid comprehension, internalization, and retention of the language.
Well, that sample lesson is very similar in content to the sample lesson that they publish on the web for (their Living Koine) Greek.

Could you tell me which pronunciation system the Biblical Language Center uses?

Are there two voices (Hebrew / English) in the 500 friends recording that you are keen on (or just the one)?
Stephen Hughes BA (Greek), BTh, MA (Egyptology)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)
kwrandolph
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Re: Questions about the Biblical Language Center materials

Post by kwrandolph »

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Ben Putnam wrote:Hi Stephen, did you notice their picture lessons too? Because of the methodology, these types of activities are of benefit even to BH professors who've been working with the language for decades, not just to beginning students, as they unlock something in the brain which makes the language more 'real' for a person and allows for more fluid comprehension, internalization, and retention of the language.
Well, that sample lesson is very similar in content to the sample lesson that they publish on the web for (their Living Koine) Greek.

Could you tell me which pronunciation system the Biblical Language Center uses?

Are there two voices (Hebrew / English) in the 500 friends recording that you are keen on (or just the one)?
The pronunciation spoken in these lessons is modern, Israeli Hebrew. The grammar is a mixture of modern Israeli and earlier versions of Hebrew. It’s the belief of their teachers that if Elijah were to return and step into a modern Tel Aviv eatery, that he’d have no problem understanding spoken modern Hebrew.

My knowledge of Hebrew is mostly from reading Bible, starting with Genesis and reading to the end over 20 times, the last several times without points, I lost count. I find I don’t understand modern written Hebrew, even Mishnaic Hebrew (non-Biblical DSS scrolls) very often doesn’t make sense. But Biblical Hebrew? Most of the difficulties come from the words used seldom, which I often don’t remember from time to time, and the use of idiomatic phrases that need parsing. And there are some copyist errors that cause problems, some of which can be recognized through checking MSS among the DSS.

Karl W. Randolph.
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Stephen Hughes
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Re: Some questions about Psalm 96

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kwrandolph wrote:My knowledge of Hebrew is mostly from reading Bible, starting with Genesis and reading to the end over 20 times
I have started to try to learn from reading - and now as well as some other online materials that Mark of Cain suggested for me - by starting in the Psalms - on the understanding that the grammar of the Psalms is repetitive. Did you have a good reason for starting at the beginning of the book?
kwrandolph wrote:the last several times without points
Does that mean that you didn't vocalise as you understood? or Does that mean that you were able to supply more or less the right vowels after practicing it so many times?
Stephen Hughes BA (Greek), BTh, MA (Egyptology)
וַאֲהַבְתֶּ֖ם אֶת־הַגֵּ֑ר כִּֽי־גֵרִ֥ים הֱיִיתֶ֖ם בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃ (Deut. 10:19)
kwrandolph
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Re: Some questions about Psalm 96

Post by kwrandolph »

Stephen:
Stephen Hughes wrote:
kwrandolph wrote:My knowledge of Hebrew is mostly from reading Bible, starting with Genesis and reading to the end over 20 times
I have started to try to learn from reading - and now as well as some other online materials that Mark of Cain suggested for me - by starting in the Psalms - on the understanding that the grammar of the Psalms is repetitive. Did you have a good reason for starting at the beginning of the book?
To make sure I read the whole book, cover to cover.

The popcorn style of reading, jumping around from place to place, can lead to some passages, some books, read extensively over and over again, while other passages or even whole books neglected, maybe never read once. That can also lead to misunderstanding of how the grammar works. There were questions discussed on this list where a relatively obscure passage could give an answer, but unless a person reads the whole text completely through, he may miss it.
Stephen Hughes wrote:
kwrandolph wrote:the last several times without points
Does that mean that you didn't vocalise as you understood? or Does that mean that you were able to supply more or less the right vowels after practicing it so many times?
The latter.The more I read, the more I became aware that the Masoretic points are sometimes wrong, that is wrong as far as meaning is concerned. Further, I became increasingly convinced that the Masoretic points don’t represent Biblical pronunciations. They represent the pronunciation tradition that existed at the time and place of the Masoretes. Yet at the same time, I repeated the Masoretic pronunciations so often that when I read out loud, i supply the vowels to which I’m accustomed, namely those based on the Masoretic points.

Karl W. Randolph.
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