B-Hebrew: The Biblical Hebrew Forum

SteveMiller wrote:

Stephen Hughes wrote:

Psalm 96:1 wrote:שִׁ֣ירוּ לַ֭יהוָה שִׁ֣יר חָדָ֑שׁ שִׁ֥ירוּ לַ֝יהוָ֗ה כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ׃

(3) How do I know from the word that it is transliterated (pronounced) as "shiyr" not "shir"? Is that by recognising from the syntax the part of speech that it is?

the dot under the shin is the vowel chirik. The way I was taught, chirik is always pronounced like a long e, but when followed by a yod, the e sound is longer.

"chirik" is the name of the sublinear vowel dot, isn't it?

It seems from the dictionary that shiyr is nominal and shir is verbal. How did that convention come about? Is it a generally accepted one?

I have a few more of the same sort of questions for the next few verses too. Any help would be appreciated:

Psalm 96:4 wrote:כִּ֥י גָ֘ד֤וֹל יְהוָ֣ה וּמְהֻלָּ֣ל מְאֹ֑ד נוֹרָ֥א ה֝֗וּא עַל־כָּל־אֱלֹהִֽים׃

• (1) I'm not quite sure what to make of the מ on the front of מְהֻלָּ֣ל here. Is it a prepostion or a suffix of some kind? Is is a shortened form of מִן?
  (2) Is נוֹרָ֥א perhaps some kind of infinitive?

Psalm 96:5 wrote:כִּ֤י ׀ כָּל־אֱלֹהֵ֣י הָעַמִּ֣ים אֱלִילִ֑ים וַֽ֝יהוָ֗ה שָׁמַ֥יִם עָשָֽׂה׃

• (3) Was the final ם lost from אֱלֹהִֽים because it is joint to הָעַמִּ֣ים or because it is before a gutteral?
  (4) What is the difference betwwen עָשָֽׂה and בָּרָ֣א?

Psalm 96:6 wrote:הוֹד־וְהָדָ֥ר לְפָנָ֑יו עֹ֥ז וְ֝תִפְאֶ֗רֶת בְּמִקְדָּשֽׁוֹ׃

• (5) Is the vowel here shortened because it is in combination or because of the gutteral that follows it?
  (6) What happened to the ם of פָּנִים before the "his"?
  (7) Is there something different between the pair הוֹד־וְהָדָ֥ר and עֹ֥ז וְ֝תִפְאֶ֗רֶת that makes one more suitable to have the joining bar than the other?

Stephen,

I know what it's like to "re-activate" Hebrew after an absence. IOW, I've paid for more Hebrew than I know .

Here are a couple of sources that you might find helpful:

Elementary Grammar Lectures (full length classes):
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... 2jvmYTUB2a

Elementary Grammar in short lessons:
http://animatedhebrew.com/lectures/index.html

Here is a Book of Ruth Reader in PDF
https://www.cph.org/pdf/531174.pdf

Hope these help in your pursuit of Hebrew -- in addition to our efforts.

Thanks for those. I think they will suppliment my own personal engagement with the text. Nothing seemed particularly unfamiliar as I flipped about in those resources, so I suppose that I won't be using them from A-Z in a row.

markofcain wrote:Here is a Book of Ruth Reader in PDF

Reading through this one was "sobering" to say the least. Over a decade ago, when I was doing the MA, I passed an exam based on Ruth and Joel - Grammar, vocabulary, translation, etc. - with 97%. Now, after looking at those 5 verses you sent me the link for, the book of Ruth looks like it is written in a foreign language!

From your reply I realize that if the reader only covers 5 verses, it is the wrong link.

Here is a complete reader for Ruth:

https://www.academia.edu/4838210/Readin ... ebrew_Text

Additionally, here is a Jonah reader by the same author of the Ruth reader:

https://www.academia.edu/5446068/Readin ... ebrew_Text

shalom Stephen,

Here is another resource you may be interested in. I have this book and CD and recommend it highly.

Living Biblical Hebrew: Selected Readings with 500 Friends, available from the Biblical Language Center at the following link. http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/b ... al-hebrew/

braxot

Stephen Hughes wrote:

SteveMiller wrote:

Stephen Hughes wrote:שִׁ֣ירוּ לַ֭יהוָה שִׁ֣יר חָדָ֑שׁ שִׁ֥ירוּ לַ֝יהוָ֗ה כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ׃
(3) How do I know from the word that it is transliterated (pronounced) as "shiyr" not "shir"? Is that by recognising from the syntax the part of speech that it is?

the dot under the shin is the vowel chirik. The way I was taught, chirik is always pronounced like a long e, but when followed by a yod, the e sound is longer.

"chirik" is the name of the sublinear vowel dot, isn't it?

yes

Stephen Hughes wrote:[It seems from the dictionary that shiyr is nominal and shir is verbal. How did that convention come about? Is it a generally accepted one?

I don't understand what you're asking. shiyr is both a noun, "song", the infinitive & masculine singular imperative forms of the verb. In Ps 96:1 the verb is pronounced shiyru and the noun as shiyr.

Stephen Hughes wrote:I have a few more of the same sort of questions for the next few verses too. Any help would be appreciated:

Psalm 96:4 wrote:כִּ֥י גָ֘ד֤וֹל יְהוָ֣ה וּמְהֻלָּ֣ל מְאֹ֑ד נוֹרָ֥א ה֝֗וּא עַל־כָּל־אֱלֹהִֽים׃

• (1) I'm not quite sure what to make of the מ on the front of מְהֻלָּ֣ל here. Is it a prepostion or a suffix of some kind? Is is a shortened form of מִן?

Stephen, I enjoy answering your questions because I learn from answering them.
Just so you know my knowledge level, I use BibleWorks to parse the words, and verb tables.
The mem here is not a preposition. It makes the Pual verb a participle.

(2) Is נוֹרָ֥א perhaps some kind of infinitive?[/list]

It is a Niphal participle.

Psalm 96:5 wrote:כִּ֤י ׀ כָּל־אֱלֹהֵ֣י הָעַמִּ֣ים אֱלִילִ֑ים וַֽ֝יהוָ֗ה שָׁמַ֥יִם עָשָֽׂה׃

• (3) Was the final ם lost from אֱלֹהִֽים because it is joint to הָעַמִּ֣ים or because it is before a gutteral?

It is because it means "gods of" הָעַמִּ֣ים. It has nothing to do with heh being a gutteral.

(4) What is the difference betwwen עָשָֽׂה and בָּרָ֣א?[/list]

עָשָֽׂה, made, is much more general, like the English "made".
בָּרָ֣א is more powerful than the English created, only taking God as a subject. (Karl pointed out 1 exception, but that may be a homonymn.) It means to bring into existence something that has never existed before.
In Gen 2:3, barah is the initiation of the work and asa is further development of it.

Psalm 96:6 wrote:הוֹד־וְהָדָ֥ר לְפָנָ֑יו עֹ֥ז וְ֝תִפְאֶ֗רֶת בְּמִקְדָּשֽׁוֹ׃

• (5) Is the vowel here shortened because it is in combination or because of the gutteral that follows it?

which vowel?

(6) What happened to the ם of פָּנִים before the "his"?

When you add a pronoun suffix onto a plural noun, the mem is dropped.
See http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Gramma ... lural.html

(7) Is there something different between the pair הוֹד־וְהָדָ֥ר and עֹ֥ז וְ֝תִפְאֶ֗רֶת that makes one more suitable to have the joining bar than the other?[/list]

Not that I can see. I don't know why the scribes put the hyphen there.

SteveMiller wrote:

Stephen Hughes wrote:

Psalm 96:6 wrote:הוֹד־וְהָדָ֥ר לְפָנָ֑יו עֹ֥ז וְ֝תִפְאֶ֗רֶת בְּמִקְדָּשֽׁוֹ׃

(5) Is the vowel here shortened because it is in combination or because of the gutteral that follows it?

which vowel?

The one I was looking at.

Seriously, though, that question was about the וְ in וְהָדָ֥ר. Looking at it today, I see that the question was beyond my level of incompentence. I had looked at the וַֽ with the tetragrammaton in the previous verse and assumed that the qāmeṣ was the standard vowel for the word. In fact it was a "wrong" question, based on a wrong presuppostion.

SteveMiller wrote:Stephen, I enjoy answering your questions because I learn from answering them.

Perhaps my more intelligent questions at least would afford you those opportunities.