Best Review Text

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Jason Hare
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Re: Best Review Text

Postby Jason Hare » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:29 pm

Schubert wrote:I learned Biblical Hebrew (to the extent I know anything about it) using Practico-Van Pelt's Basics of Biblical Hebrew, together with its separate exercise book. One reason I liked Practico is that it is clearly laid out and the font size is relatively large.

However, I'm sorely tempted to purchase A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar. I've had a good look on Amazon at the inside contents of the book and think it would be of considerable assistance. At the moment my reference grammar is Gesenius.

I also use Gesenius for reference (as does the rest of the world, I think). LOL

I'm SOOOO tempted to pick up that reference grammar, too. I just don't know if I can justify the cost of the book by its value. I think I'll take another look.

I almost clicked "purchase" last night on the Tyndale House Greek New Testament, and I really had to fight myself away from the click. I already have too many Greek New Testaments. Why do I need another?!?! I have NA27, UBS4 and the Textus Receptus. I can't justify getting another one... Then again, I have like ten Hebrew Bibles, including one New Testament in Hebrew. Gotta stop spending money on books!
Jason Hare
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kwrandolph
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Re: Best Review Text

Postby kwrandolph » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:01 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:Yes, Karl, I remember you. Weren't you the one that told me knowing Latin was worthless? I'm quite familiar with your idiosyncratic views, and for those I have no use. I have no intention whatsoever of abandoning more than 1/2 a millennium of scholarship and the history of interpretation. Having said that, however, I do agree that nothing beats reading the original language, seeing things in context, and so forth. I give that advice all the time with regard to Greek. "The more you read..."


Barry:

Sometimes one has to throw away long tradition.

For example, after the Reformation, early modern scientists found they had to toss out 1.5 millennium of “scientific” tradition in order to establish good scientific method. For example, early Lutherans working with Luther in Wittemberg collaborated with and got published a certain book by someone named Copernicus.

Except for Gesenius, all the books mentioned in this thread were published during and after a period when I had no contact with Hebrew scholarship other than the text of Tanakh, the textbook I had in class, a couple of dictionaries and a concordance. I soon had to toss out the textbook, because it simply didn’t match the text I was reading in Tanakh. Analyzing words as they appear in the whole of Tanakh led me to start writing corrections in the margins of my dictionaries. In short, what I had been taught in class was Tiberian Hebrew, not Biblical Hebrew.

Reading the whole text over and over again, not just cherry-picked excerpts, forced me to re-evaluate what I had been taught.

Being cut off from the stream of Hebrew scholarship as it was developing (or not developing) allowed me the freedom to evaluate the text itself, apart from what others say about the text.

Schubert wrote:At the moment my reference grammar is Gesenius.


Ouch! Tiberian Hebrew writ large.

Instead of studying what other say about Tanakh, wouldn’t it be better just to get into Tanakh itself?

The scientific revolution was started by people who stopped reading about what others said about nature, rather went out and studied nature itself. So the same way, which will be more useful, reading what others say about Tanakh, or reading Tanakh itself?

Karl W. Randolph.

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Re: Best Review Text

Postby kwrandolph » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:54 pm

Jason Hare wrote:I almost clicked "purchase" last night on the Tyndale House Greek New Testament, and I really had to fight myself away from the click. I already have too many Greek New Testaments. Why do I need another?!?! I have NA27, UBS4 and the Textus Receptus. I can't justify getting another one... Then again, I have like ten Hebrew Bibles, including one New Testament in Hebrew. Gotta stop spending money on books!


This is why I recommend http://www.crosswire.org and similar sites. Especially this one. Even on this little old hackintosh netbook that I use mainly for discussions, I have two Hebrew Tanakhs, LXX, two translations and a Greek New Testament. On other computers I have another two versions of Tanakh, another couple of Greek New Testaments, all of it downloaded for free. The only reason I didn’t download more was because I don’t see when I would ever read them. Even my iPod Touch (stripped down iPhone) has 11 Bibles in different languages including LXX and two Tanakhs, and that easily fits in my pocket.

If you don’t mind that they’re electronic, you can choose the font you find easiest to read, size the font to where it’s comfortable, put on a nice, aged vellum background color that’s easy on the eyes, then sit back and enjoy the text. And it’s all a free download.

If I come across a word that I don’t remember, or I want to refresh my thoughts on it, I can quickly switch over to an electronic dictionary and have the definition before me in less time that it takes to reach over to a paper dictionary, let alone flip the pages.

I started with Biblia Hebreica (doesn’t everybody?) but that was too big and heavy to move from my desk. When I found the Koren edition that fits in a coat pocket, I grabbed it and wore out two of them from heavy use. I’m sold on electronic aids. Especially when so much is available for free as a ministry to provide Bibles to the world.

Karl W. Randolph.

Ps: the Greek New Testament that I think is most accurate to the original is the text according to the majority (Byzantine) text. There are linguistic reasons connected to Hebrew for that choice.

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Jason Hare
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Re: Best Review Text

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:22 am

So, Barry, have you made any decisions?

P.S. I used my post #100 to ask you this question. LOL
Last edited by Jason Hare on Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jason Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: Best Review Text

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:28 am

kwrandolph wrote:Instead of studying what other say about Tanakh, wouldn’t it be better just to get into Tanakh itself?

Doesn't this kinda undercut the entire enterprise of B-Hebrew? Aren't we talking about the Tānāḵ and reading each other's perspectives for the sake of learning? I know that what I'm saying is silly, but it would seem to me that what you're saying is just as silly. We, as humans, invest time in metalanguage to generalize and formulate rules. There's nothing wrong with this - so long as it is accompanied by copious amounts of text!

That said, there's a group on Facebook that is going to a one-year reading program for the Hebrew Bible and the Greek New Testament together. The reading list is still forming. Anyone who's interested can feel free to contact me (fb.com/jaihare), and I'll get you connected. I'll personally be using a Koren Tānāḵ and the THGNT that I just ordered tonight (hardcover for $20 - half price).

It'll be a heavy reading year to finish the whole of both texts together, but I think it's going to be interesting, too.
Jason Hare
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Kirk Lowery
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Re: Best Review Text

Postby Kirk Lowery » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:16 am

Jason,

What kind of reading skill (fluency, vocabulary, etc.) do you think will be necessary to take on such a challenge?
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Re: Best Review Text

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:56 am

Kirk Lowery wrote:Jason,

What kind of reading skill (fluency, vocabulary, etc.) do you think will be necessary to take on such a challenge?

Since we're talking about reading both Greek and Hebrew over the year, I think it takes more preparation than reading skills. What I mean is that we're all preparing by using vocabulary lists and reviewing grammar. The goal is to read as quickly as possible without translating, to be inundated with the text.

Given that this will be my first time reading the entire Bible in Hebrew and Greek, I expect to struggle quite a bit. People who are in the group (we currently have 105 people in the group have agreed to participate at one level or another) are coming from all different backgrounds with regard to the languages, and we've not set any type of knowledge requirement for participation.

Again, the purpose is to be flooded with the languages, not to get to the nitty gritty of each chapter or verse. The more you are exposed to a language, the more things will set in and eventually connections will be made. Understand as much as you can, having made reasonable preparations as you go into the text.

:ugeek:
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Kirk Lowery
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Re: Best Review Text

Postby Kirk Lowery » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:07 am

"One level or another"? Is there somewhere to go to read a description of the plan and details of participation?

Yes, during my masters studies at UCLA we had to take a HB readings course: 1-2 Samuel and 1 Kings all in a ten-week quarter. The only exam we took was a comprehension exam, מי אמר את זה?. It was a definite challenge, doing more than 40 verses a week...
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kwrandolph
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Re: Best Review Text

Postby kwrandolph » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:30 am

Jason Hare wrote:
kwrandolph wrote:Instead of studying what other say about Tanakh, wouldn’t it be better just to get into Tanakh itself?

Doesn't this kinda undercut the entire enterprise of B-Hebrew?


LOL! And in recent weeks I’m kicking myself for spending too much time here and not enough in Tanakh.

Karl W. Randolph.

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Re: Best Review Text

Postby kwrandolph » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:54 am

Jason Hare wrote:
Kirk Lowery wrote:Jason,

What kind of reading skill (fluency, vocabulary, etc.) do you think will be necessary to take on such a challenge?

Since we're talking about reading both Greek and Hebrew over the year, I think it takes more preparation than reading skills. What I mean is that we're all preparing by using vocabulary lists and reviewing grammar. The goal is to read as quickly as possible without translating, to be inundated with the text.

Again, the purpose is to be flooded with the languages, not to get to the nitty gritty of each chapter or verse. The more you are exposed to a language, the more things will set in and eventually connections will be made. Understand as much as you can, having made reasonable preparations as you go into the text.


Been there, done that.

The Greek New Testament is doable, only about two chapters a day. Three or four chapters where the chapters are short. I’d say that my Greek is not as good as the Apostle John, who basically wrote Greek words over an Aramaic base, but good enough with a dictionary to make it.

In Hebrew, be prepared to read different amounts each day. In simple, easy to read sections like Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Ruth and Chronicles, be ready to read five to eight chapters a day, so that when you get to difficult to understand passages like Isaiah 1–35 you can be satisfied with as little as one chapter a day. (Isaiah wrote with a large vocabulary over complex sentences.)

Just some thoughts on your preparation.

Karl W. Randolph.


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