correctkwrandolph wrote:
My first reaction was, how did you get “calculated” here? Then I see you got it as a happax legomenon from a dictionary.
Isaac gave a good answer.kwrandolph wrote:From where did the dictionary get that meaning?
I do also.kwrandolph wrote: I tend to distrust happax meanings when there is another meaning used more than once and already recognized.
"gate" is used symbolically rather often in the Bible, but I am not aware of it having the symbolic meaning that you are giving it.kwrandolph wrote:And why not?SteveMiller wrote:I don't think "gate" makes sense here.
Look at the action. What is the purpose of a gate, in particular the city gate of a fortified city? So look at the actions of this not so friendly person—he offers food and drink, but his heart is not with you. Is that action not like a gate, shut to keep you out even as he offers food and drink? Isn’t that action repeated in the closing phrase of the verse “without his heart being with you”?
I think what Isaac said, that shaar mainly means the opening, is true.
There is no need for the author to be so mysterious or complicated to understand.
I was not clear. What I mean is that the cmo and kaan go together like caasher and kaan, which is more common: As xxxxxx, so xxxxxx.kwrandolph wrote:It does. In both verses כֶּ֫ן introduces the next clause.SteveMiller wrote:Also, I think כֶּ֫ן should go with כְּמוֹ as in Isa 26:17.
As xxxx in his soul, so he is.
Your translation does not have "so he is", but "so 'eat and drink' he will say...
You are taking the ה֥וּא which follows the kaan, and putting it before the kaan and giving it the meaning "very". But the kaan starts the "so" part of the simile, so I don't think you can take a word following the kaan and move it to the previous clause.
I agree with you. What I meant to say was "a weakness for translating shaar as calculate".kwrandolph wrote:How do you get that שער “never has this meaning elsewhere”? I estimate around 300 other verses.SteveMiller wrote:A weakness for this translation is that שָׁעַ֥ר never has this meaning elsewhere, but I don't see another that makes sense.
As a noun, it has the meaning of "measure" in Gen 26:12.
No DSS for Gen 26:12. Samaritan Penteteuch matches the MT.kwrandolph wrote:Is there a DSS reading for Gen. 26:12? Does it differ? Are there not other verses where the measurement is assumed when talking about grains? I seem to remember that there are verses like that, but I don’t remember where. I read this verse as 100 measures of barley.
Yes, you have a good Hebrew memory! Ruth 3:15, 17; cf 2Chron 27:5
2Kings 7:1, 18 are interesting because they have shaar as both barley and as gate in the same verse.
It does appear that Gen 26:12 would be better translated as 100 measures of barley.