lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

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sophronios budiman
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lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

Postby sophronios budiman » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:28 pm

may I ask some basic question about textbook exercise?

אכלנו מבשר הבקר וממי הנהר שתינו

this is taken from the exercise from Lambdin intro, lesson 19 exercise c, on page 85

my question is, what is the meaning of the word in bold type?
when I consult the answer key, the answer that it is some form of מן.
is this some inflected form of the word? but I can not locate this inflected form anywhere in the textbook neither in any lexicon...
is that some sort of variation or I just miss something here?

my apologize that I can not insert the vowel yet.
Sophronios Budiman

kwrandolph
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Re: lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

Postby kwrandolph » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:22 am

sophronios budiman wrote:may I ask some basic question about textbook exercise?


Sure.

sophronios budiman wrote:אכלנו מבשר הבקר וממי הנהר שתינו

…my question is, what is the meaning of the word in bold type?
when I consult the answer key, the answer that it is some form of מן.


Yes, it is some form of מן, as a prefix on the word מי

The word מי is the construct form of מים which means “waters”.

Things like these can be confusing until you learn it, and the only way to learn it is by being confused by it.

sophronios budiman wrote:my apologize that I can not insert the vowel yet.


Don’t worry about the vowel points. The Bible was written without them and they aren’t needed to understand Bible. I don’t use them and have never learned how to insert them.

Karl W. Randolph.

sophronios budiman
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Re: lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

Postby sophronios budiman » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:10 am

it eludes me that water in some languages are always plural in forms.. very interesting..
so, the sentence can be read clearly

we ate from the meat of the cattle, and drank from the water of the river

thank you for the kind explanation
Sophronios Budiman

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Jason Hare
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Re: lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:26 am

Just for your information: the construct of מַ֫יִם may be either מֵי or מֵימֵי.

Regarding Karl’s rather imperative-ish advice, the vowel points are indeed helpful. I read Hebrew without vowel points, since I read and speak modern Hebrew. However, the use of nikkud does indeed help clarify questions of pronunciation and nuance.

As it is, the question you raised didn’t need nikkud even to address the question, since it is clear from the shape of the sentence what was intended. However, some verses need more context, and the vocalization of the text allows to distinguish forms and clarify meaning.
Jason Hare
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Re: lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:49 am

By the way, were you aware that a key to Lambdin's textbook has been published and is freely disseminated?
Jason Hare
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Re: lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:20 am

For מִמֵּימֵי as the construct together with the מִן as an inseparable prefix:

(Exodus 4:9, MT)
וְהָיָ֡ה אִם־לֹ֣א יַֽאֲמִ֡ינוּ גַּם֩ לִשְׁנֵ֨י הָֽאֹת֜וֹת הָאֵ֗לֶּה וְלֹ֤א יִשְׁמְעוּן֙ לְקֹלֶ֔ךָ וְלָֽקַחְתָּ֙ מִמֵּימֵ֣י הַיְאֹ֔ר וְשָֽׁפַכְתָּ֖ הַיַּבָּשָׁ֑ה וְהָי֤וּ הַמַּ֨יִם֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר תִּקַּ֣ח מִן־הַיְאֹ֔ר וְהָי֥וּ לְדָ֖ם בַּיַּבָּֽשֶׁת׃

> "... and you shall take (some) of the waters of the (Nile) river..."

The form מִמֵּי is used here:

(Genesis 9:11, MT)
וַהֲקִֽמֹתִ֤י אֶת־בְּרִיתִי֙ אִתְּכֶ֔ם וְלֹֽא־יִכָּרֵ֧ת כָּל־בָּשָׂ֛ר ע֖וֹד מִמֵּ֣י הַמַּבּ֑וּל וְלֹֽא־יִהְיֶ֥ה ע֛וֹד מַבּ֖וּל לְשַׁחֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

> "... and all flesh will not be cut off again from the waters of the flood..."
Jason Hare
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sophronios budiman
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Re: lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

Postby sophronios budiman » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:53 am

Jason Hare wrote:Just for your information: the construct of מַ֫יִם may be either מֵי or מֵימֵי.

Regarding Karl’s rather imperative-ish advice, the vowel points are indeed helpful. I read Hebrew without vowel points, since I read and speak modern Hebrew. However, the use of nikkud does indeed help clarify questions of pronunciation and nuance.

As it is, the question you raised didn’t need nikkud even to address the question, since it is clear from the shape of the sentence what was intended. However, some verses need more context, and the vocalization of the text allows to distinguish forms and clarify meaning.


perhaps, since I am learning hebrew without a teacher, I sluggishly have a tendency to spell the consonant with whatever pronunciation my native language allows me to. but yes, I will try to commit the important vowel into memory

Jason Hare wrote:By the way, were you aware that a key to Lambdin's textbook has been published and is freely disseminated?


yeah Im aware of that and it really helps me.. thx for the info by the way..

Jason Hare wrote:For מִמֵּימֵי as the construct together with the מִן as an inseparable prefix:

(Exodus 4:9, MT)
וְהָיָ֡ה אִם־לֹ֣א יַֽאֲמִ֡ינוּ גַּם֩ לִשְׁנֵ֨י הָֽאֹת֜וֹת הָאֵ֗לֶּה וְלֹ֤א יִשְׁמְעוּן֙ לְקֹלֶ֔ךָ וְלָֽקַחְתָּ֙ מִמֵּימֵ֣י הַיְאֹ֔ר וְשָֽׁפַכְתָּ֖ הַיַּבָּשָׁ֑ה וְהָי֤וּ הַמַּ֨יִם֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר תִּקַּ֣ח מִן־הַיְאֹ֔ר וְהָי֥וּ לְדָ֖ם בַּיַּבָּֽשֶׁת׃

> "... and you shall take (some) of the waters of the (Nile) river..."

The form מִמֵּי is used here:

(Genesis 9:11, MT)
וַהֲקִֽמֹתִ֤י אֶת־בְּרִיתִי֙ אִתְּכֶ֔ם וְלֹֽא־יִכָּרֵ֧ת כָּל־בָּשָׂ֛ר ע֖וֹד מִמֵּ֣י הַמַּבּ֑וּל וְלֹֽא־יִהְיֶ֥ה ע֛וֹד מַבּ֖וּל לְשַׁחֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

> "... and all flesh will not be cut off again from the waters of the flood..."


It seems that the word is irregular and need a memory work.. thx
Sophronios Budiman

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Jason Hare
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Re: lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:10 pm

sophronios budiman wrote:perhaps, since I am learning hebrew without a teacher, I sluggishly have a tendency to spell the consonant with whatever pronunciation my native language allows me to. but yes, I will try to commit the important vowel into memory

I think that pronouncing a language consistently (no matter what pronunciation you use) creates pathways within the memory. I'd love to read Hebrew with you from time to time, if you would like. I have Skype, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp and a Skyvrit virtual classroom. We can choose a book of the Bible to read from and just make progress in reading. It's a free offer, if you're interested.

sophronios budiman wrote:It seems that the word is irregular and need a memory work.. thx

Absolutely. Much of second language learning has to do with memory work. However, acquisition is a whole different animal. It's too bad you don't have an in-person teacher to allow you to use Hebrew more widely or at least to provide you with level-appropriate input from the Hebrew language.

It's a good idea to start reading Hebrew from a very early stage.

Good luck in your progress with the language! It is a special language that fills my heart with joy. :)
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel

sophronios budiman
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Re: lambdin lesson 19 exercise c no 4

Postby sophronios budiman » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:18 pm

it would be great if we can do the virtual classroom.. lets exchange the skype/whatsup number via PM then?
Sophronios Budiman


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