Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

A forum for discussion about writing in ancient Hebrew, and for practicing writing in Hebrew. If you post in this forum, you are inviting people to critique what you have written and suggest ways to improve it.

Private subforums can be created for groups who want to practice together without exposing their mistakes to the world, or this can be done in public.
Forum rules
Members will observe the rules for respectful discourse at all times!
Please sign all posts with your first and last (family) name.
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by Jason Hare »

The next drill:
Behold I (was) walking in the way and found the old prophet and I gave (to) him to eat, for he was hungry, and I hid him with me in the house and I saved his life (‘soul’) from death.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by Jason Hare »

Hidden Hebrew Text

הִנְנִי הֹלֵךְ בַּדֶּ֫רֶךְ וָאֶמְצָא אֶת־הַנָּבִיא הַזָּקֵן וָאֶתֵּן לוֹ לֶאֱכֹל כִּי הוּא רָעֵב וָאַסְתִּרֵ֫הוּ אֶצְלִי בַּבַּ֫יִת וָאַצֵּל אֶת־נַפְשׁוֹ מִמָּ֫וֶת׃
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by Jason Hare »

SPOILER
*** DON'T READ UNTIL YOU'RE FINISHED ***

Notes:

1. וָאֶמְצָא is a regular vav-consecutive with III-Alef. The kamats in the 1cs is because of the rejection of dagesh after the vav-consecutive element.
2. וָאֶתֵּן is by analogy to וַיִּתֵּן. Notice that there is no accent shifting in this verb (as in וַיֵּ֫שֶׁב, for example).
3. In the hiphil, the -i- vowel normally changes to -e- in the vav-consecutive. Thus, וָאֶסְתֵּר from אַסְתִּיר, but with object suffixes, the -i- returns. Most of the time, it is written defectively.
4. וָאַסְתִּרֵ֫הוּ is equivalent to וָאַסְתֵּר אֹתוֹ.
5. Instead of אֶצְלִי "by me," you could write one of the following for "with me": עִמִּי עִמָּדִי אִתִּי (there are four options).
6. Just as hiphil אַסְתִּיר (shoresh סת״ר) becomes vav-consecutive וָאַסְתֵּר, so hiphil אַצִּיל (shoresh נצ״ל) becomes vav-consecutive וָאַצֵּל.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Glenn Dean
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 6:28 pm

Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by Glenn Dean »

Hidden Hebrew Text

הנה אני מתהלך בדרך ואמצא הנבא הזקן ואתן לו לאכל כי היה רעב ויטמן אותו בי בבית ואושׂיע נפשׂו ממות
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by Jason Hare »

Glenn Dean wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:18 am
Hidden Hebrew Text

הנה אני מתהלך בדרך ואמצא הנבא הזקן ואתן לו לאכל כי היה רעב ויטמן אותו בי בבית ואושׂיע נפשׂו ממות
Did you intentionally use מִתְהַלֵּךְ to provoke the sense of strolling or walking around? I'd expect to see it in the qal rather than the hitpael, but it's certainly a possibility.

Notice that הִנֵּה can take personal suffixes, so הִנְנִי (important to pronounce the vocal sheva there!) means "behold I" or "behold me." In pause, the middle vowel becomes stressed (הִנֶּ֫נִּי).

Before the direct object, you need אֵת, since it's definite ("the old prophet" vs. "an old prophet").

In the "hungry" phrase, I would leave out "was" and use "he" instead ("because he [was] hungry").

I'm not sure if you intended ויטמן to be qal or hiphil (both would look the same when unpointed). That root carries the meaning of burying while hiding something or someone. I assume that it's supposed to be hiphil, which would be וַיַּטְמֵן (this is found in one verse in the Bible in the plural), but I wouldn't go with this form. There are two very common words for hiding, also both in the hiphil: הִסִתִּיר and הֶחְבִּיא. Neither of them carry with them the idea of burying whatever it is that is being hidden. These roots appear also in the niphal, the huphal, and the hitpael. I chose הִסְתִּיר.

Notice that "with" is בְּ־ when it is an instrument ("I write with a pen."), but not when it is accompaniment ("Please, come with me."). "With me" means "in my company" or "where I am." That can be עִם,‎ אֵת or אֵ֫צֶל. With the 1cs suffix, these become עִמִּי\עִמָּדִי,‎ אִתִּי, or אֶצְלִי, respectively. I chose the latter. In modern Hebrew, אֶצְלִי בַּבַּ֫יִת is a regularly occurring expression.

Again, אֵת is missing before the definite direct object, and notice that "soul" has shin rather than sin.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Glenn Dean
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 6:28 pm

Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by Glenn Dean »

Jason Hare wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:41 pm
Did you intentionally use מִתְהַלֵּךְ to provoke the sense of strolling or walking around? I'd expect to see it in the qal rather than the hitpael, but it's certainly a possibility.
I can't remember which verse I saw it in the hithpael, but it seemed they used it to mean the person was "just walking about" (versus with some purpose, like "I walked to the store") - so that's why I put it in the hithpael participle.

Thanxs for the feedback. I'll get back to your other comments in the morning.
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by Jason Hare »

Glenn Dean wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:19 pm I can't remember which verse I saw it in the hithpael, but it seemed they used it to mean the person was "just walking about" (versus with some purpose, like "I walked to the store") - so that's why I put it in the hithpael participle.

Thanxs for the feedback. I'll get back to your other comments in the morning.
I think people who are walking on the road normally have a direction in which they are going. I'd use it in the qal.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Glenn Dean
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 6:28 pm

Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by Glenn Dean »

Jason Hare wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:41 pm
I'm not sure if you intended ויטמן to be qal or hiphil (both would look the same when unpointed).
The mind is a terrible thing to lose - I'm not sure exactly where I got that word. I was trying to use the exact same word in the Rahab story "hiding the two men", but that word is צָפַן (Joshua 2:4).

Thanxs for your other corrections!

Glenn
kwrandolph
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:51 am

Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by kwrandolph »

Again, I made this translation days ago, then waited to see what others would say. Long ago I gave up my copy of Weingreen, so I don’t know what he was expecting.
Jason Hare wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:06 am The next drill:
Behold I (was) walking in the way and found the old prophet and I gave (to) him to eat, for he was hungry, and I hid him with me in the house and I saved his life (‘soul’) from death.
First, change this from unnatural English and stilted Hebrew to how a Hebrew would have said this. This is two sentences, not one.

“Behold, in my walking in the road, I met the old prophet.”

Here the main emphasis is on the walking down the road.

The next sentence changes the subject to what the actor does, hence it starts out with a primary indicative verb.

“then I gave to him to eat for he hungered, and I hid (caused to hide) him in my house to cause his soul to be snatched from death.”

הנה בהלכי בדרך פגשתי הנביא הזקן, אז נתתי לו לאכל כי רעב ואחביאו בביתי להנצל את נפשו ממות

Karl W. Randolph.
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.2

Post by Jason Hare »

The infinitive construct of הלך loses the heh and picks up a tav: בלכתי "in my walking." The niphal of נצל is "to be saved" rather than "to save." It should be hiphil.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Post Reply