Why should I do your work for you? Just read Isaiah, then Zachariah, or Jeremiah then Malachi, then you should see what I mean.
Anyways, you’ll benefit from that study.
Karl W. Randolph.
Why should I do your work for you? Just read Isaiah, then Zachariah, or Jeremiah then Malachi, then you should see what I mean.
Jason: by that standard, then Latin is still a living language. Almost all major documents as late as the 18th century were written in Latin. There are still documents being written in Latin. People still speak it fluently. As the world around its use changes, so the language evolves So by your definition, is Latin a living language? Is Latin a natively spoken language?Jason Hare wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:31 pm I’d think that the Mishnah is evidence that Hebrew continued. Why would it have been written in Hebrew? Why would the Tosafot have been written in Hebrew? Why was Hebrew so prominent among the documents discovered in the Dead Sea caves? Why did Bar Kochba inscriptions bear “Paleo Hebrew” inscriptions? The language of the Mishnah was a natural progression from biblical Hebrew.
You haven’t seen it. Didn’t Randall Buth address this question not long ago? Did you give your rebuttal of his arguments and I just missed it?kwrandolph wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:01 pmAll the evidence I have seen is that Hebrew ceased being a “natively spoken language” during and shortly after the Babylonian exile. The evidence from Ezra and Nehemiah is that Hebrew was not the natively spoken language of their time. I have seen no evidence from any other source of Hebrew being natively spoken at any later time, until modern Israeli Hebrew.
talmid56 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:13 pm
Examples of such simpler Hebrew? And, I would note that stylistic arguments can themselves be subjective, thus speculative. But again, show 'em if you've got 'em.
In fact, I have read all of them in Hebrew, three times now. I'm in the process of reading thru the Tanakh in the original the fourth time. I'm currently in Deut. 18. (I'm also listening to it in Hebrew, now in the IBS [Israel Bible Society] audio edition. I will also start listening to the Biblia Mirecurensia edition of the Torah. I had already listened to the BM edition some in Psalms.)Karl wrote: Why should I do your work for you? Just read Isaiah, then Zachariah, or Jeremiah then Malachi, then you should see what I mean.
Anyways, you’ll benefit from that study.
I don’t buy that argument either. Maybe that’s because I write very much as a speak. So I expect the same of the Biblical writers.Jason Hare wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:50 am Well, since all we have is what is written, why not just assume that Hebrew was never a native language? All we have is documents written in it. Perhaps it was only ever a literary language. Why not just be complete skeptics on the topic? Good luck proving to me that any one person ever at any time spoke biblical Hebrew.
I suspect that when the grammar changed, there was no longer a major role for the wayyiqtol so it was dropped. Here’s where knowing the original grammar would help in the understanding of the language.Jason Hare wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:50 am (Some argue, IIRC, that the vayyiqtol was not part of any Hebrew vernacular but was used only for storytelling.)
I read his argument, but never wrote a detailed rebuttal to it. I just noted at that time for my personal satisfaction that not one of his examples required that Hebrew be natively spoken. This was never a question of Hebrew being spoken, just natively spoken.Jason Hare wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:53 amYou haven’t seen it. Didn’t Randall Buth address this question not long ago? Did you give your rebuttal of his arguments and I just missed it?kwrandolph wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:01 pmAll the evidence I have seen is that Hebrew ceased being a “natively spoken language” during and shortly after the Babylonian exile. The evidence from Ezra and Nehemiah is that Hebrew was not the natively spoken language of their time. I have seen no evidence from any other source of Hebrew being natively spoken at any later time, until modern Israeli Hebrew.
Thanks for the reference.Jason Hare wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:51 pm Miguel Pérez Fernández (An Introductory Grammar of Rabbinic Hebrew, tr. John Elwolde, Brill, 1997) specifically says that “Hebrew began to die out as a spoken language” only in the late Rabbinic period. … He also, though, admits that Hebrew “could have been spoken just in academic circles, for teaching or in court—in the same way that Latin was used in mediaeval scholarship and, until very recently, in the Roman Catholic Church—but not in everyday life” (p. 2), but he thinks this unlikely for the reasons given. …