Bible verse(s) with missing preposition?

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stargirl
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Bible verse(s) with missing preposition?

Post by stargirl »

I’ve read verses that have left pronouns for inference, but I’m curious if anyone knows one or more example verse(s) where a preposition is left for inference as some claim for Psalm 22:16/17 “like a lion [at] my hands and feet.” (And please for the sake of isolating on this inquiry, without debating your personal belief on the word כרו/כארו/כארי.) Thanks in advance for your help!

Carolyn Burns
kwrandolph
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Re: Bible verse(s) with missing preposition?

Post by kwrandolph »

stargirl wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:14 am I’ve read verses that have left pronouns for inference, but I’m curious if anyone knows one or more example verse(s) where a preposition is left for inference as some claim for Psalm 22:16/17 “like a lion [at] my hands and feet.” (And please for the sake of isolating on this inquiry, without debating your personal belief on the word כרו/כארו/כארי.) Thanks in advance for your help!

Carolyn Burns
Carolyn Burns: Please, can you indicate other verses?

Before answering, we need to establish the accuracy of our reading of the verse. You have chosen a verse where there is controversy, so much so that we cannot answer the question on our accuracy of reading. Because of the discussion, my own understanding of the verse has changed. Without the accuracy of our understanding definitively established, any discussion we have on this verse will be just hot air signifying nothing.

So please, in this question, can you use other verses where there is no controversy?

Karl W. Randolph.
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Jason Hare
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Re: Bible verse(s) with missing preposition?

Post by Jason Hare »

kwrandolph wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:48 pmSo please, in this question, can you use other verses where there is no controversy?
Karl—I think this is exactly the issue. She’s trying to wrestle with the verse in question while not having learned Hebrew or experienced reading other verses. She wants to know if it’s normal to have the prepositions missing.

Carolyn—Essentially, it isn’t unusual to find prepositions missing in Hebrew poetry (this is especially true of אֵת). This is related to the terseness of Hebrew poetry generally. I cannot think of a specific verse right now, but I’ll keep my eyes open to post something here when I come across it.
Jason Hare
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kwrandolph
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Re: Bible verse(s) with missing preposition?

Post by kwrandolph »

Jason Hare wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:15 pm
kwrandolph wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:48 pmSo please, in this question, can you use other verses where there is no controversy?
Karl—I think this is exactly the issue. She’s trying to wrestle with the verse in question while not having learned Hebrew or experienced reading other verses. She wants to know if it’s normal to have the prepositions missing.
Thanks, Jason, especially if you can find any.

The answer that is coming back is that it isn’t normal.
Jason Hare wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:15 pm Carolyn—Essentially, it isn’t unusual to find prepositions missing in Hebrew poetry (this is especially true of אֵת). This is related to the terseness of Hebrew poetry generally. I cannot think of a specific verse right now, but I’ll keep my eyes open to post something here when I come across it.
That we who have studied Hebrew can’t think of verses showing such a practice indicates that it is rare, if it happens at all. I don’t categorically say that it’s impossible, I just can’t think of any examples.

As for את indicating the object of a verb, that is not a true preposition except when it means “with”. I can’t think of any time את meaning “with” is missing.

Karl W. Randolph.
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Jason Hare
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Re: Bible verse(s) with missing preposition?

Post by Jason Hare »

Perhaps something like יוֹרְדֵי בוֹר from Proverbs 1:12:
Prov. 1:12 (BHS)
נִ֭בְלָעֵם כִּשְׁא֣וֹל חַיִּ֑ים וּ֝תְמִימִ֗ים כְּי֣וֹרְדֵי בֽוֹר׃
The concept is more literally expressed as יוֹרְדִים אֶל־הַבּוֹר, but poetically it can be expressed as “those going down of (the) pit,” as a construct that eliminates the prepositional phrase.

This is an example of something that happens like this. I’m not sure if it’s what Carolyn is looking for, though.
Jason Hare
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יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
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kwrandolph
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Re: Bible verse(s) with missing preposition?

Post by kwrandolph »

Jason Hare wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:31 pm Perhaps something like יוֹרְדֵי בוֹר from Proverbs 1:12:
Prov. 1:12 (BHS)
נִ֭בְלָעֵם כִּשְׁא֣וֹל חַיִּ֑ים וּ֝תְמִימִ֗ים כְּי֣וֹרְדֵי בֽוֹר׃
The concept is more literally expressed as יוֹרְדִים אֶל־הַבּוֹר, but poetically it can be expressed as “those going down of (the) pit,” as a construct that eliminates the prepositional phrase.

This is an example of something that happens like this. I’m not sure if it’s what Carolyn is looking for, though.
This example is also found in Isaiah 38:18–19. Because יורדי is masculine plural in construct, I don’t see it as missing a preposition. In English, I would add a preposition.

It looks as if you’ll have a better time finding such verses than I.

Karl W. Randolph.
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