B-Hebrew: The Biblical Hebrew Forum

וַיִּשְׁאַלֵם

In modern Hebrew, what would be the most common: split words or suffixed?

וישאלם is right but you need to change the Patah' in the Aleph to Qamats.

Modern Hebrew always prefers to split words.
People, while talking, prefer to "break the sentence down to "small units" so it is clear.
So it is common to say וישאל אתם
(actually שאל אתם - since the form of וישאל is not in the spoken modern Hebrew).

suffixed words are more in nice talk or in the literature (form as וישאל (with the "special" Vav) is only in poetry of high literature).

ducky wrote:Yes. you can write it in two words: וישאל אתם
or, you can write the verb and its object in one word
...?

וַיִּשְׁאָלֵם

ducky wrote:וישאלם is right but you need to change the Patah' in the Aleph to Qamats.

Just wanted to say that why it is וַיִּשְׁאָלֵם has to do with syllabification. The word is stressed on the final syllable: וַיִּשְׁאָלֵ֫ם, which makes the syllable with alef unaccented. Since the lamed is not doubled (with dagesh), the alef is also an open syllable. When a syllable is unaccented and open, it needs a long vowel. Hence, kamats rather than patach.

וַיִּשְׁאַל אֹתָם ← וַיִּשְׁאָלֵם

Jason: my translation was almost identical to yours, except I don’t bother with the vowel points.

Also I took the word for “amid” from Genesis 42:5 בתוך instead of בין

Both of us recognized the story from Genesis, and so started our translations with וירא, whereas the way Weingreen wrote the sentence, it should have started with ראה.

Karl W. Randolph.

kwrandolph wrote:Both of us recognized the story from Genesis, and so started our translations with וירא, whereas the way Weingreen wrote the sentence, it should have started with ראה.

I recommend anything written by John Cook on the narrative features of Hebrew verbs. There's no reason to slavishly translate the וַ◌ּ element in וַיַּרְא as "and he saw." It is there because that is how Hebrew expresses the narrative past, not because the conjunction actually means "and." So, I think anyone who is at the level of translating English into Hebrew should see that narrative is carried along with vav-consecutives, even from the beginning of the string. I don't see it as problematic on Weingreen's behalf. He's simply checking that we understand how narrative works.

Ok. I’m gonna get on this Weingreen thing.

Jason Hare wrote:Just wanted to say that why it is וַיִּשְׁאָלֵם has to do with syllabification. The word is stressed on the final syllable: וַיִּשְׁאָלֵ֫ם, which makes the syllable with alef unaccented. Since the lamed is not doubled (with dagesh), the alef is also an open syllable. When a syllable is unaccented and open, it needs a long vowel. Hence, kamats rather than patach.

וַיִּשְׁאַל אֹתָם ← וַיִּשְׁאָלֵם

Thanks for the helpful information as always, Jason!

S_Walch wrote:My vowel-points are likely wrong (I've spent much time with the DSS so I forget a lot of how the vowel-points are supposed to be), but here's my attempt:

Hidden Text

וַיַּ֥רְא יוֹסֵ֛ף אֶת־אֶחָ֖יו בַּבָּאִ֣ים לְמִצְרַ֖יִם וַיִּגַּשׁ לָהֶ֔ם וַיִּשְׁאַ֨ל בַּֽהֶ֔ם לֵאמֹ֔ר הֲט֤וֹב לַאֲבִיכֶם הַזָּקֵ֖ן וַיֹּאמְר֗וּ הֲט֤וֹב וְהִנֵּ֨ה יֵרֵ֛ד אִתָּ֛נוּ אָחִ֥ינוּ הַקָּטֹן

I have thought about it for a while, and I wanted to respond on this one. The sentence «Is it well with (ל) your old father?» has its correspondence in 2 Kings 4:26. Notice the following:

עַתָּה֮ רֽוּץ־נָ֣א לִקְרָאתָהּ֒ וֶֽאֱמָר־לָ֗הּ הֲשָׁל֥וֹם לָ֛ךְ הֲשָׁל֥וֹם לְאִישֵׁ֖ךְ הֲשָׁל֣וֹם לַיָּ֑לֶד וַתֹּ֖אמֶר שָׁלֽוֹם׃

We have here several instances of asking after someone's well-being.

הֲשָׁלוֹם לָךְ - "Is it well with you?"
הֲשָׁלוֹם לְאִישֵׁךְ - "Is it well with your husband?"
הֲשָׁלוֹם לַיֶּ֫לֶד - "Is it well with the child?" (in pause as יָלֶד)

The answer is simply שָׁלוֹם in all cases.

Also, when they gave the response to Joseph, it shouldn't have the interrogative heh attached to it (הֲטוֹב).

(1) Joseph saw his brothers among the (ones) coming to Egypt and he drew near unto them and he asked them, saying: ‘Is it well with (ל) your old father?’ and they said, ‘It is well, and behold our small brother hath come down with us’.ו44

Hidden Text

וַיַּרְא יוֹסֵף את־אֶחָיו מֵבָּאִים אל־מִצרָיִם וַיִּקרַב עַלֵיכֶם וַיִּשְׁעָלֵם הֲשָׁלוֹם לְאֲבְכֶם הַזָּקֵן וַיֹֹּאמְרוּ שָׁלוֹם וְהִנֵּה אָחֵנוּ הַקָּטוֹן יָרָד עִמָּנוּ