B-Hebrew: The Biblical Hebrew Forum

Isaac Fried wrote:Here is another example for the stringing of personal pronouns to create words out of roots. From spoken Hebrew: דַע DA, 'know', מַדָע=מה-דע, MA-DA, 'science', literally, 'what-know'; מַדָעִי=מדע-היא, MADAIY, 'scientific', literally, it-science'; מַדָעָן=מה-דע-אן, MADAAN, 'scientist m.'; מַדָעָנִית=מה-דע-אן-היא-את, 'scientist f.'; מַדָעִים=מה-דע-הם, 'sciences'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

The fact that ma means "what" when used as an interrogative doesn't mean it has anything to do with how the morpheme [ma] modifies the verb דַע to create the meaning of "knowledge".
As for מַדָעִי there is nothing to connect the yod suffix to the female pronoun היא. Neither is there any argument for how the semantic value "she" might inform the root and change it from a noun to an adjective.

Jonathan Mohler

Ps. 133:1
הִנֵּה מַה טּוֹב וּמַה נָּעִים שֶׁבֶת אַחִים גַּם יָחַד
NIV: "How good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity!"
is not interrogative.
מה is 'that which', and so מַעְגָּל = מה-עגל MA-AGAL is 'that which is circular';and so מַפְתֵּחַ=מה-פתח is 'that which opens', and so on and on. I saw it so and heard it so since childhood. It never occurred to me that Hebrew is built up of "morphemes".

The English "knowledge" is with the suffix -ledge of lost meaning.

If the "yod suffix" of מדעי is not 'he, she', then what is it? I am open to suggestions.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Oh, and how could I miss this sublime "modern Hebrew" passage of Qohelet 1:9
מַה-שֶּׁהָיָה הוּא שֶׁיִּהְיֶה וּמַה-שֶּׁנַּעֲשָׂה הוּא שֶׁיֵּעָשֶׂה וְאֵין כָּל-חָדָשׁ תַּחַת הַשָּׁמֶשׁ
NIV: "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."
with the attached שֶׁ being a contracted זֶה ZEH, 'this', namely
מַה זֶה הָיָה הוּא זֶה יִּהְיֶה וּמַה זֶה נַּעֲשָׂה הוּא זֶה יֵּעָשֶׂה וְאֵין כָּל חָדָשׁ תַּחַת הַשָּׁמֶשׁ

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isn't שֶׁ a remnant of אשר, so that מה is more like "that" and שהיה is "which has been?"

Jonathan Mohler

Isaac Fried wrote:Ps. 133:1
הִנֵּה מַה טּוֹב וּמַה נָּעִים שֶׁבֶת אַחִים גַּם יָחַד
NIV: "How good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity!"
is not interrogative.
מה is 'that which', and so מַעְגָּל = מה-עגל MA-AGAL is 'that which is circular';and so מַפְתֵּחַ=מה-פתח is 'that which opens', and so on and on. I saw it so and heard it so since childhood. It never occurred to me that Hebrew is built up of "morphemes".

The English "knowledge" is with the suffix -ledge of lost meaning.

If the "yod suffix" of מדעי is not 'he, she', then what is it? I am open to suggestions.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Even if you are right about the ma prefix being somehow related to mah, mah is still a morpheme. More linguistics 101. All languages are made up of morphemes. Hebrew is no exception.
As to the yod prefix, not knowing its etymology or not having an alternative does nothing to support your claim.

Jonathan Mohler

The pronoun מה MAH appears also as מִי MI (independently, the universal PP מִי as in מִי וָמִי הַהֹלְכִים "who will be going", Ex. 10:8), as in מִקְדָּשׁ=מי-קדש, as well as מוּ MU, as in the מוּעָקָה=מוּ-עקה, 'burden, oppressiveness', of Ps. 66:11.

Also in the hufal verbal construction:
הוּבָא=הוּא-בא, מוּבָא, אוּבָא, תּוּבָא, יוּבָא, נוּבָא=אנוּ-בא

Isaac Fried, Boston University

We notice that since the act בּוֹא consists of the single consonant B, and is already carrying the internal PP O, it can not well take more internal PP's, and is limited to only the paal, hifil, and hufal verbal forms. In the hifil form, the internal O=HU הוּא of בּוֹא is changed into I=HI הִיא, as in הֵבִיא.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Let's naively elaborate on the scene of Ex. 10:8. Pharaoh is sitting on his temporal throne upon the dais, resplendent in his silly regalia and braided thin beard. He raises his eyes, looks at Moses and asks: אתה הוֹלך "are you going"? Then he nods in the direction of Aaron and asks הוּא הוֹלך "is he going"? Then he shakes his head and exclaims in mock desperation מי הוֹלך "who is going"? Moses looks through the window and sees the Israelites toiling in the courtyard. He points to them and says הם הוֹלכים=הוֹלך-הם "they are going", כֻּלָנוּ=כל-אנוּ הוֹלכים "we are all going", כֻּלָּם=כל-הם הוֹלכים "all are going".

Isaac Fried, Boston University

parallel to מִי Hebrew also has also the universal personal pronoun נִי of the nifal construction, referring to the beneficiary of the act:
נִשְׁבַּר לִבִּי בְקִרְבִּי רָחֲפוּ כָּל עַצְמוֹתַי
NIV: "My heart) is broken within me; all my bones tremble. Jer. 23:9.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

One needs to be alert as to the different combinations making up a compound PP:
לִבַּבְתִּי=לבב-אתי 'I charmed', literally, 'charm-I', with אתי=אני, 'I', for the performer of the act לבב LBB.
But,
לִבַּבְתִּנִי אֲחֹתִי כַלָּה לִבַּבְתִּנִי בְּאַחַת מֵעֵינַיִךְ
KJV: "Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse; thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes". Song 4:9
with לבבתיני-לבב-את-היא-אני where את-היא is the sister-spouse imparting the act LBB, and where אני is the troubadour, the beneficiary of the act LBB.

Having mentioned נִי NIY, we recall the somewhat pompous post-biblical סְבוּרָנִי=סבוּר-אני, 'methinks=me-thinks'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University