B-Hebrew: The Biblical Hebrew Forum

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Hello Karl,

I can see that you didn't take my suggestion, but that's okay.
You are pressed to the wall and you know it.

I will skip on a lot of subjects and focus on one or two.
And then, when we'll finish with them, I will go back to them.
so it would be more focused on each subject.

kwrandolph wrote:I have never studied Akkadian and cannot read it, so when a professor (yes it was a professor) makes a claim concerning Akkadian, I accept what he says.

I thought you said that you don't respect authorities.
But you do respect them only when it is comfortable for you?
So now your study is based on rumors?
Do you even know if he was a real professor?
The fact that you didn't even check the root, which is the simplest thing to do, Shows your real way of study - which is based on "rumors".
Whether it is right or wrong - you don't check it.

By the way, A lot of things that I say here are also said by a professor (yes it was a professor), So you choose to follow what is comfortable to you.

kwrandolph wrote:It’s not as simple as you think. Other considerations are:
• is this an independent or dependent clause within the sentence?
• has the object of the verb been identified prior to this use, or is this the first time he’s mentioned?
• most importantly, is this the correct verb to use in this context?

I’ll address the last issue here. No, this is not the correct verb for this context. My first thought was that צוה is the correct verb, and it’s used in this manner in Jeremiah in his asking Baruch to do certain things. Baruch could have told Jeremiah off and not done what Jeremiah requested. My second choice is התחנן which is even used as a master asking a slave to do something.

Listen, this is ridiculous. You're embarrassing yourself with all of that so-called thin defining that you do.
You put yourself in a corner and you don't know how to get out of there.
You're just trying to hang on any branch you see, tiny as it is.
You know that you're wrong and you just can't say it.

Just allow me to send you a text to translate and we'll finish this.

Even more embarrassing that you want to use צוה and התחנן.
It is like I'm talking to a kid here.

And you're just brave on the internet because no one can really test you.
and when I offer you a real test - then you're hiding behind a lot of Bla-Bla.
And this is so funny that when someone cannot really defend himself then he starts defining little things that don't exist, just to make everyone think that there are some tiny things.

Just say Yes, and I will send you the text.
We can do it even in private messages if you're afraid to be embarrassed in front of everyone.

And another important question:
I wrote in my last comment the word:
בתיה = her houses
Is this word considered Biblical or not?

what about סוסתך = your (female) horse
Is this word biblical or not?

Answer these two question because they are important.

Ducky wrote

I don't get it. Do you say that there is no Mobile Sheva in Hebrew? I don't even know how to react to this. You see it and speak it.

I certainly don't see it (how am I supposed to "see" it?) and I don't speak it. I will tell you how to react to it: stop "moving" the schwa (not absolutely all but more on this anon) and you will be surprised as to how crisp an beautiful Hebrew sounds without the e-e of the "mobile" schwa. The same holds for the קמץ גדול and other such שטויות.
I am surprised at you, on the one hand you claim that the niqud markings all correspond to distinct vowels (which I suspect is not true), but on the other hand you "move" some schwas according to some invented rules.
Reading the תנ"ך in public I never move any schwa, except that I follow the מנהג ארץ-ישראל and I do "move", read it as e, any initial schwa under a non-radical בכל"ם letter to declare it. For instance I read (I have seen this example in an Israeli grammar book some years ago) the word בְּלוּלָה, 'mixed', of the root בלל, as BLULAH with a schwa "נח", but I read word בְּלוּלָה, 'in her coop', in her לוּל as Be-LULAH.

The "mesorates", are historical fiction, an invention to ease the acceptance of this abomination called the punctuated Tanakh, התנ"ך המנוקד.


Isaac Fried, Boston University

Ducky asks

what about סוסתך, your (female) horse. Is this word biblical or not?

I say: Yes! It is Hebrew:
סוסתך = סוּס-את-אכה
in which the את is for the horse to show that is of the female kind, and with אכה, a variant of אתה, referring to the owner of this beast.
Speaking, we tend to separate the one word into the two
הסוסה שלךָ
Still it is one and the same language, as you say.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Jason says

Isaac, you must agree that הוא יִשְׂרֹף and הוא יִשָּׂרֵף have different meanings! Binyan does have meaning when used in tandem with given roots.

Yes, you are right, these are different "Binyanim", verbal forms,
יִשָּׂרֵף = היא-שרף is with an initial היא referring to the beneficiary of the act שרף, 'burn', the one consumed by the fire.
יִשְׂרֹף = היא-שר-הוּא-ף is with an initial היא referring to the performer of the act שרף. I see the internal הוּא as being the beneficiary of the act.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Ducky wrote

Language is evolved. it doesn't change itself in a day.
Also in the Biblical era, there was more than one accent (for example north and south)
And also in the post-biblical era, there was more than one accent.
And also in the era of the Masoretic people, who voweled the text, there was more than one accent.

Oh, this is good, this is good. Ducky, Keep writing
חברים מקשיבים (ומחשיבים) לקולךָ

Isaac Fried, Boston University

ducky wrote:Hello Karl,

I can see that you didn't take my suggestion, but that's okay.
You are pressed to the wall and you know it.

What suggestion? I don’t remember one.

ducky wrote:

kwrandolph wrote:I have never studied Akkadian and cannot read it, so when a professor (yes it was a professor) makes a claim concerning Akkadian, I accept what he says.

I thought you said that you don't respect authorities.

Depends. I don’t put authorities up on a pedestal, But if someone has studied something that I haven’t, I will listen to what he says. That doesn’t mean that I’ll automatically kowtow to what he says, but I will listen.

ducky wrote:But you do respect them only when it is comfortable for you?

Nope.

ducky wrote:So now your study is based on rumors?

Now are you disrespecting authorities? Looks like it.

ducky wrote:Do you even know if he was a real professor?
The fact that you didn't even check the root, which is the simplest thing to do, Shows your real way of study - which is based on "rumors".
Whether it is right or wrong - you don't check it.

You just recently joined this forum. When I joined, I was about the only one here who was not a professor at a university, if not a grad student working for his PhD. Yes, they were real professors. The discussions on this forum were interesting then. Unfortunately most of them left. Many of them left when this forum lost its original hosting site.

Until you started spouting off here, I had almost stopped visiting this forum because nothing of interest was happening. I was visiting just to look around maybe once a week.

ducky wrote:By the way, A lot of things that I say here are also said by a professor (yes it was a professor), So you choose to follow what is comfortable to you.

I choose to evaluate based on expertise.

In Akkadian, I have no expertise, so I listen to what others who have studied Akkadian have to say.

In Biblical Hebrew, I have expertise, an expertise not on what others say about Biblical Hebrew, rather an expertise based on reading Biblical Hebrew myself. I also have done some original research on the language. I now have a standard against which to evaluate what others say about Biblical Hebrew and I’m not afraid to tell even professors when they have violated that standard.

ducky wrote:

kwrandolph wrote:It’s not as simple as you think. Other considerations are:
• is this an independent or dependent clause within the sentence?
• has the object of the verb been identified prior to this use, or is this the first time he’s mentioned?
• most importantly, is this the correct verb to use in this context?

I’ll address the last issue here. No, this is not the correct verb for this context. My first thought was that צוה is the correct verb, and it’s used in this manner in Jeremiah in his asking Baruch to do certain things. Baruch could have told Jeremiah off and not done what Jeremiah requested. My second choice is התחנן which is even used as a master asking a slave to do something.

Listen, this is ridiculous. You're embarrassing yourself with all of that so-called thin defining that you do.

What do you know about lexicography? Have you done any? Do you know the proper tools to use in lexicography?

In this response and also earlier responses, you remind me of Proverbs 18:13.

ducky wrote:And you're just brave on the internet because no one can really test you.
and when I offer you a real test - then you're hiding behind a lot of Bla-Bla.

What “real test”?

ducky wrote:And this is so funny that when someone cannot really defend himself then he starts defining little things that don't exist, just to make everyone think that there are some tiny things.

Just say Yes, and I will send you the text.
We can do it even in private messages if you're afraid to be embarrassed in front of everyone.

What makes you so sure that it is not you who will be embarrassed? What are your credentials besides being a native speaker of modern Israeli Hebrew?

ducky wrote:And another important question:
I wrote in my last comment the word:
בתיה = her houses
Is this word considered Biblical or not?

Silly question. Didn’t you read 1 Chronicles 4:18?

By the way, I don’t remember seeing that word in a previous comment. Which previous comment?

ducky wrote:what about סוסתך = your (female) horse
Is this word biblical or not?

Not found in Tanakh. But ססתי is found in Song of Songs 1:9.

ducky wrote:Answer these two question because they are important.

How are they “important”?

Karl W. Randolph.

Hello Karl,

I'm gonna try to focus on the important stuff
By the way, My suggestion was to be more respectful
but never mind.

kwrandolph wrote:What makes you so sure that it is not you who will be embarrassed?

So would you do it or not? I don't understand you.

kwrandolph wrote:

ducky wrote:And another important question:
I wrote in my last comment the word:
בתיה = her houses
Is this word considered Biblical or not?

Silly question. Didn’t you read 1 Chronicles 4:18?

Not silly.
I wrote בתיה as "her houses".
Is this what is written in Chronicles?
if so, translate it to simple English, please.

So I ask you again, Do you consider this word בתיה, with the meaning of "her houses", Biblical or not?
It is a simple yes or no question.

kwrandolph wrote:

ducky wrote:what about סוסתך = your (female) horse
Is this word biblical or not?

Not found in Tanakh. But ססתי is found in Song of Songs 1:9.

You're avoiding the question. I know what is written and what is not - that is why I ask you these questions.

I'm asking you... the word ססתי (my female horse), you call it biblical, right?
what happens if you see a sentence (that you consider it Biblical) but it has the word ססתך (your female horse)?
Do you consider this sentence using Biblical Hebrew or not?

kwrandolph wrote:How are they “important”?

It is important. It is actually the core of what's going on here.
And that is why you didn't answer "Yes" or "No" to none of these two questions, but just added information about them without referring to my "Yes&No question.

kwrandolph wrote:By the way, I don’t remember seeing that word in a previous comment. Which previous comment?

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=360&start=20#p28311
Please don't reply to it.
I try to shorten our discussion as possible.
It all comes down to these questions anyway.

Hello Isaac,

I'm keeping on hold the other subjects of this threads.
I'm trying to focus on one at a time.

So only later, I will go back to all of the subjects that were written here.

ducky wrote:Hello Karl,

I'm gonna try to focus on the important stuff
By the way, My suggestion was to be more respectful
but never mind.

“…be more respectful”? If you want that, shouldn’t that start with you? What gives you the right to demand that others treat you as a superior? What are your credentials?

ducky wrote:

kwrandolph wrote:What makes you so sure that it is not you who will be embarrassed?

So would you do it or not? I don't understand you.

What makes you so sure that you could write something that could be passed off as Biblical Hebrew?

ducky wrote:

kwrandolph wrote:

ducky wrote:And another important question:
I wrote in my last comment the word:
בתיה = her houses
Is this word considered Biblical or not?

Silly question. Didn’t you read 1 Chronicles 4:18?

Not silly.
I wrote בתיה as "her houses".
Is this what is written in Chronicles?

Do you think I’d make the reference to Chronicles if it weren’t? Why didn’t you look it up to verify what I wrote?

ducky wrote:if so, translate it to simple English, please.

You already did, so why should I too?

ducky wrote:So I ask you again, Do you consider this word בתיה, with the meaning of "her houses", Biblical or not?
It is a simple yes or no question.

How is my answer pointing to where it’s used in Tanakh not an answer to your question?

ducky wrote:

kwrandolph wrote:

ducky wrote:what about סוסתך = your (female) horse
Is this word biblical or not?

Not found in Tanakh. But ססתי is found in Song of Songs 1:9.

You're avoiding the question. I know what is written and what is not - that is why I ask you these questions.

You “know what is written”? Yet you didn’t know that בתיה is found in Chronicles? Yet you were ready to pass סוסתך off as Biblical? Then how is showing that what you thought is Biblical but isn’t not an answer to your question?

Then why ask such silly questions?

ducky wrote:I'm asking you... the word ססתי (my female horse), you call it biblical, right?

Silly question. If it’s found in the Bible, what else is it?

ducky wrote:what happens if you see a sentence (that you consider it Biblical) but it has the word ססתך (your female horse)?
Do you consider this sentence using Biblical Hebrew or not?

How can it be Biblical if it’s using vocabulary not found in the Bible? And that’s just dealing with vocabulary.

ducky wrote:

kwrandolph wrote:How are they “important”?

It is important. It is actually the core of what's going on here.
And that is why you didn't answer "Yes" or "No" to none of these two questions, but just added information about them without referring to my "Yes&No question.

Because I want to show you how silly are your questions.

ducky wrote:

kwrandolph wrote:By the way, I don’t remember seeing that word in a previous comment. Which previous comment?

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=360&start=20#p28311
Please don't reply to it.
I try to shorten our discussion as possible.
It all comes down to these questions anyway.

Do you remember the Jehoash Inscription? Were there any linguistic clues indicating that it is a forgery? If so, what are they?

By the way, I notice that you haven’t answered some of my questions I posed in previous messages. Are you avoiding them? Why?

Karl W. Randolph.