Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

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talmid56
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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby talmid56 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:05 pm

Returning for a moment to the question of whether "name" can be used with multiple names, it may be helpful to compare Isa. 8:1-3. There Isaiah is instructed to write on a scroll before witnesses מַהֵ֥ר שָׁלָ֖ל חָ֥שׁ בַּֽז, Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (NIV 2011). So Isaiah makes love to his wife, "the prophetess", and they have a son. God instructs Isaiah to קְרָ֣א שְׁמ֔וֹ מַהֵ֥ר שָׁלָ֖ל חָ֥שׁ בַּֽז׃. The NIV footnote on 8:1 reads, "Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz means quick to the plunder, swift to the spoil".

Now this name has several components and is quite lengthy; it is allegedly the longest name in Scripture. Yet Isaiah has no problem using the singular שְׁמ֔וֹ, "name" to describe it. Not an exact parallel, I grant, to the "name" in 9:6. But, perhaps, the grammar point is worth considering.
Dewayne Dulaney
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כִּ֤י שֶׁ֨מֶשׁ׀ וּמָגֵן֮ יְהוָ֪ה אֱלֹ֫הִ֥ים חֵ֣ן וְ֭כָבוֹד יִתֵּ֣ן יְהוָ֑ה לֹ֥א יִמְנַע־ט֝֗וֹב לַֽהֹלְכִ֥ים בְּתָמִֽים׃
--(E 84:11) 84:12 תהלים

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SteveMiller
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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby SteveMiller » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:30 pm

In addition to what Dewayne shared, here is one place with 2 names, that uses "name" singular:
Gen 31:48b ‎ עַל־כֵּ֥ן קָרָֽא־שְׁמ֖וֹ גַּלְעֵֽד
49 וְהַמִּצְפָּה֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר אָמַ֔ר יִ֥צֶף יְהוָ֖ה בֵּינִ֣י וּבֵינֶ֑ךָ כִּ֥י נִסָּתֵ֖ר אִ֥ישׁ מֵרֵעֵֽהוּ׃
Gen 31:48b Therefore was the name of it called Galeed,
49 -- and Mizpah; for he said, Let Jehovah watch between me and thee, when we shall be hidden one from another:
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
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Homeskillet
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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby Homeskillet » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:21 am

I realize this thread is old, but I just saw this.

Although I myself am not a Trinitarian either (I do believe Jesus is God Almighty), the author flubs in many assertions on his video. In the small clip I watched I noticed that he stated that no NT writer applied Isaiah 9.6 to Jesus. This is highly debatable based upon Matthew 28.19—which many academics view as an allusion or echo of Isaiah 9.6. In both texts you have one “name” for eternal Father, Son and Mighty God. This makes great sense inasmuch as Matthew is addressing Jews is his polemic to convince them that Jesus is their Christ who the OT prophets spoke of, hence, Matthew quotes the OT far more than the other gospels...and it makes great sense that he would conclude his argument by referencing this infamous OT Messianic prophecy.

Also, the author includes the article for “the mighty God, the everlasting Father”...when both Hebrew terms are anarthrous (i.e., lacking the article). I realize that the singular “name” could be evidence of a definitive construction in this text, just pointing out that, technically, there is no article used w. these Hebrew terms.

I’m certainly still in the learning phase myself (only have 1st year Hebrew under my belt). I do enjoy gleaning from this forum though. Just my thoughts.

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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby Kirk Lowery » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:27 am

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Kenneth Greifer
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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby Kenneth Greifer » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:29 am

Homeskillet,

If you are interested in alternative and strange new translations of Isaiah 9:5-6, I have a PDF with a lot of alternatives I have thought of on my site: http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/
See volume 2 on page 61.

Kenneth Greifer

Homeskillet
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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby Homeskillet » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:56 am

Kenneth Greifer wrote:Homeskillet,

If you are interested in alternative and strange new translations of Isaiah 9:5-6, I have a PDF with a lot of alternatives I have thought of on my site: http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/
See volume 2 on page 61.

Kenneth Greifer


Thank you. Will look into this.

Roger Perkins

Homeskillet
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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby Homeskillet » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:57 am

Kirk Lowery wrote:Please note that forum policy is to sign every post with your first and last name. This can be done by changing your user name (I, as moderator, can do that), put your name into a signature, or sign at the bottom of every post.

Thanks!

Kirk


Will do!

Roger Perkins

Schubert
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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby Schubert » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:35 pm

Kenneth Greifer wrote:Homeskillet,

If you are interested in alternative and strange new translations of Isaiah 9:5-6, I have a PDF with a lot of alternatives I have thought of on my site: http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/
See volume 2 on page 61.

Kenneth Greifer


Roger, if you decide to look at Kenneth's material, you may find this recent thread also to be of interest (if you've not already seen it): viewtopic.php?f=12&t=22301&p=28770#p28770
John McKinnon

Homeskillet
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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby Homeskillet » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:16 pm

Schubert wrote:
Kenneth Greifer wrote:Homeskillet,

If you are interested in alternative and strange new translations of Isaiah 9:5-6, I have a PDF with a lot of alternatives I have thought of on my site: http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/
See volume 2 on page 61.

Kenneth Greifer


Roger, if you decide to look at Kenneth's material, you may find this recent thread also to be of interest (if you've not already seen it): viewtopic.php?f=12&t=22301&p=28770#p28770


Yes, I did see that thread actually. Much appreciated.

Kenneth Greifer
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Re: Is this analysis of Isaiah 9:6 a legitimate one?

Postby Kenneth Greifer » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:11 am

Roger,
I looked at your blog, and I realize that you are very interested in monotheism and the Bible, so instead of looking at my ideas for Isaiah 9:5-6, maybe you could look at volume 1, chapters 2-5 and 9. I discuss a lot of things about monotheism that you might find a interesting for your debates.
Kenneth Greifer


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