Job 40:15-8

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Saboi
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Job 40:15-8

Postby Saboi » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:40 pm

Job 40:15-18
הנה־נא בהמות אשר־עשיתי עמך חציר כבקר יאכל
הנה־נא כחו במתניו ואנו בשרירי בטנו
יחפץ זנבו כמו־ארז גידי פחדו ישרגו
עצמיו אפיקי נחושה גרמיו כמטיל ברזל

בהמות
- βόσκημα 'fatted beasts, cattle, of horses, sheep, hogs and dogs
- βῆμα ' πρόβατα, cattle.

מתן - νῶτον 'Back, rear, ridge'
בטן - ὕπτιον 'in animals, the under parts, i.e. the belly uppermost
גידי - κλαδί 'branch, of a blood vessel, metaphor 'two arms
זנב - στόλος 'stump of the tail, in animals
פחד - φῦσα 'pair of bellows, bladder, πλατύς 'broad-shouldered
שרירי, שרג - σῦριγξ 'hole in the nave of a wheel, cavity of the spine, passage through the elephant's trunk
עצמ - ὀστέον 'bone, esp. of the cranium,
גרמ - ῥάχις 'the lower part of the back, the chine
ארז - ῥαδινός 'of the limbs or body, taper, slim, slender, ὄρπηξ 'anything made of such shoots or trees , cf.κυπάρισσος
מטיל - μέταλλον 'mineral, metal

The main theory would be Elephant, in Latin, BOS in the word for an Ox but also an Elephant, bos Lucas and the word 'BOS' appears in the phrase, שנהבים (Elephant teeth) and the plural form of Bos is Boum (בהמ) and Job 40:15 describes the animal as a בקר from βούκερως 'horned like an ox' (קרן), It is important to bring in Latins since the Phoenicians who occupied north Africa traded Elephants with them.
Lee Mcgee

Saboi
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Re: Job 40:15-8

Postby Saboi » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:50 pm

Job 40:15
הנה־נא בהמות אשר־עשיתי עמך חציר כבקר יאכל
ἔνθα μα βοσκήματα ὅσα־ἐποίησα μετὰ־σοῦ χιλόν ὡσεὶ βουσὶν ἐσθίει
But there the Elephants which i have made with thee, they eats fodder like oxen
Lee Mcgee

Saboi
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Re: Job 40:15-8

Postby Saboi » Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:25 pm

הנה־נא כחו במתניו ואנו בשרירי בטנו
His strength is in his back and his might in the underparts of his trunk.

יחפץ זנבו כמו־ארז גידי פחדו ישרגו
He moves his tail like a sapling with the branches twined together

עצמיו אפיקי נחושה גרמיו כמטיל ברזל
His cranium as strong as brass and his chine are hard as Iron.
Lee Mcgee

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SteveMiller
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Re: Job 40:15-8

Postby SteveMiller » Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:57 pm

Lee,
It can't be an elephant because an elephant does not have a tail like a cedar. It does not say "sapling".
For the same reason, hippo is out.
The only animals that have their strength in their bellies are marine mammals because they move their tails up and down.
The only marine mammal that eats sea grass like a cow is the manatee family, including dugongs and the supposed-to-be extinct sea cow. They have huge tails.
Like all mammals they wag their tails to show emotion which goes along with the text which literally says, He delights his tail like a cedar.
Other unique characteristics of the manatee that match Job 40 are that these are the only animals with solid bones, no marrow. They really feel like iron (v18).
And the salt water species are the thirstiest animals in the world (v23). Sea grass is salty, so manatees hang around where fresh water rivers pour into the sea to drink. In Florida it is illegal to run water from a hose into the harbor, because that splashing sound draws manatees who come to drink from the hose.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)

Saboi
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: Job 40:15-8

Postby Saboi » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:33 pm

They are no manatee around the Mediterranean Sea, they do inhabit the western coasts of Africa that was partially navigated by Hanno (חנ‬א), a Carthaginian explorer of the sixth century BCE.

Job 40:23
Behold, he drinks up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

The Animal is drinking from the Jordan (or Orontes) in the Levant thus geographically, not manatee.
Lee Mcgee

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SteveMiller
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Re: Job 40:15-8

Postby SteveMiller » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:38 pm

Lee,
Manatees live in the Red Sea.
The word "Jordan" means "descender".
The name of the river Jordan always has the definite article.
Here it is without the def. article. It means a fast descending river, maybe a waterfall.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)

Saboi
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Re: Job 40:15-8

Postby Saboi » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:09 pm

The Jordan is no way near the Red Sea and Job 40 doesn't describe any aquatic features, but the next chapter, does describe an aquatic animal, the Levitation, perhaps a crocodile.
Lee Mcgee

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SteveMiller
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Re: Job 40:15-8

Postby SteveMiller » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:24 pm

I was considering the Gulf of Aquaba as part of the Red Sea.
I don't think Job is talking about the Jordan, but any fast descending river.
Aquatic features in Job section on Behemoth:
21 He lieth under lotus-bushes, in the covert of the reed and fen:
22 Lotus-bushes cover him with their shade; the willows of the brook surround him.
23 Lo, the river overfloweth -- he startleth not: he is confident though a Jordan break forth against his mouth.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)

Saboi
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: Job 40:15-8

Postby Saboi » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:08 pm

The Book of Job uses unique Hebrew compared too the rest of Books and the Lotus reading doesn't make much sense, the Septuagint reads δένδρος (יער) 'fruit or mast-bearing trees, tall plants'.

Songs of Solomon 2:3
As the apple tree among the trees of the wood(יער), I sat down under his shadow(צל) with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

The word Shadow, צל and צאלים is the word in Job, perhaps ξύλον and also נחל 'winter-torrent' which puts the geography in the Lebanon as in Songs 2:3, or more specifically, Aammiq Wetland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aammiq_Wetland

The 'Willow' reading in Job also in Leviticus 23:40

And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days.

Both Job & Leviticus as the same phrase , ערבי־נחל, the word 'ערבי is not definable, although
a linguistic match, ὄροφος (órofos).

ὄροφος
reed used for thatching houses, distinct from κάλαμος
Syrian name of a plant = κροκοδιλιάς,

κροκοδιλιάς (Crocodile) also called a ἀρτεμισία also called ἀμβροσίη 'wormwood, or μονόκλωνος "of a single stem'
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... ek#lexicon
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... F0&prior=e)re/fw
Lee Mcgee

Saboi
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: Job 40:15-8

Postby Saboi » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:43 pm

ערבי־נחל

How is ערב translating willows if the context describes them in a torrent and the Septuagint reads κλάδους
and thus the poetry in Job is describing an Animal and a plant, a double entendre, for the descriptive words in Job 15:18 also describes plants.

The Greek word for Willow is ἰτέα (Psalm 137:2)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... ek#lexicon

III. ἰ. δένδρος, = ἵππουρις,
. ἵππουρις " a water-plant, horse-tail, Equisetum silvaticum'

Image

Isaiah 44:4 - willows by the water courses
Lee Mcgee


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