דברות & רפסדות

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Saboi

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby Saboi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:41 am

You have not explained the interchange between דברות & רפסדות.

Genesis 31:18
וינהג את־כל־מקנהו > ἡγησάμην πάντα ὠνήματα αὐτοῦ

In the Hebrew scriptures, דבר doesn't have the semantics of "lead", the Aramaic, "דבר" is probably a homonym, perhaps
related to degero (διάγω) "to lead across".

ducky
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby ducky » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:09 am

There is no literal relationship between דברת and רפסודות
The דברות was written in the "classic Hebrew era"
and רפסודות was written in Chronicles which is the "late era" (second temple era)

it is just another word with the same final meaning without a literal relationship in their source
David Hunter

ducky
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby ducky » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:53 am

Also, what about the word דבורה = bee?

does it have a sense of leather or a sense of leading? (as what she sucks to another place or maybe some other sense of leading or moving)
David Hunter

Saboi

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby Saboi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:03 am

ῥάπτης > רפסודות "made of hides sewn together"
διφθέρα > דברות "made of hides sewn together"

The same word is used in other ancient writings.

Xenophon, Anabasis 2.4.28
Crossing upon rafts made of skins [ διῆγον ἐπὶ σχεδίαις διφθερίναις]
> ויעבירו על דברות

1 Kings 5:8
ארזים > ἀρκεύθους "Phoenician cedar, Juniperus phoenicea"
ברושים > κυπαρίσσους "cypress-wood as timber"

Saboi

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby Saboi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:51 am

דבש > (ϝ)ὀπός "sap, juice of the fig-tree" cf. ὗβος
צוף > σκύφος "cup, can"
נפת > ὄπισμα "Juice of plants"
צור > κηρός "honeycomb, bees-wax"

Lt.
favus "honey-comb" (f/ד)
apis "bee"

In Isaiah 30:6, דבשת is the hump of a Camel, the Latin word is gibbus (Gk. ὗβος)

Deborah associates with אלון בכות cf. βαλανηφόρος "bearing-dates" (φοίνικες), hence תמר "Palm tree" (Judges 4:5) and the Hebrew word "דבש" (ὀπός, sapor) also the word for the Sap of a tree, the milky juice that is drawn from a plant by tapping it and the sap of a palm tree tends to be very sweet.

Isaac Fried
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby Isaac Fried » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:51 am

David Hunter says
the דבר has the meaning of Leading

I am sorry, but in my opinion no Hebrew root can mean "lead". The meaning of דבר is צבר, 'collect, accumulate'.
Also, what about the word דבורה = bee?

דבורה = צבורה, 'a member of a swarm'.
In the same way דביר = צביר, 'a raised part'
מִדְבָּר = מי-דבר is a מצבר, 'an accumulation of sand, earth and stones'. Compare with אדמה זיבוּרית, 'low quality land', as opposed to אדמה עידית, 'choice land'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby Isaac Fried » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:10 pm

Lee Mcgee says
διφθέρα > דברות "made of hides sewn together"
I am sorry, but I see no merit whatsoever in a system by which the meaning of a Hebrew word is decided by a nearly similarly sounding Greek word.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Saboi

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby Saboi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:06 pm

דברות "made of hides sewn together'.

This is confirmed and they did indeed made boats from animal skins and διφθέρα/דברות compares to Persian, "dipi" , Akkadian "ṭuppu" and Sumerian "dub".

צבר > θησαυρός (θησαϝυρ). "thisavrós" (thisabrós).
This cognate confirmed in Zechariah 9:3 and gave us "Thesaurus'.

מצבר
The prefixed מ always converts to the suffix position in Greek, so this is θησαύρισμα "store", not to be confused with prepositions.

-μα/
Added to verbal stems to form neuter nouns denoting the result of an action, a particular instance of an action, or the object of an action

γράφω (אכתב) "write" > γράμμα (מכתב) "that which is written"
ὁράω (ארא) "see" > ὅραμα (מראה) "that which is seen, spectacle'
δωσῶ (אתן) "give" > δόμα (מתן) "that which is given, a gift"

-σις/
Added to verb stems to form abstract nouns or nouns of action, result or process

ὁράω (ארא) "see" > ὅρασις (תארה) "'seeing, the act of sight"

Isaac Fried
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby Isaac Fried » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:52 pm

Lee Mcgee says
צבר > θησαυρός (θησαϝυρ). "thisavrós" (thisabrós).
This cognate confirmed in Zechariah 9:3 and gave us "Thesaurus'.

I am not sure what this "cognate" is supposed to mean, nor why θησαυρός is of any relevance here, but here is
Zechariah 9:3
וַתִּבֶן צֹר מָצוֹר לָהּ וַתִּצְבָּר כֶּסֶף כֶּעָפָר וְחָרוּץ כְּטִיט חוּצוֹת
KJV: And Tyrus did build herself a strong hold, and heaped up silver as the dust, and fine gold as the mire of the streets.

It is very clear what he says, and it is certainly not about a thesaurus.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Saboi

Re: דברות & רפסדות

Postby Saboi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:02 pm

Zechariah 9:3
ותצבר־כסף > ἐθησαύρισεν ἀργύριον
- אצבר/θησαυρίζω "store, treasure up, hoard, store up for oneself,"

Exodus 12:44
מקנת־כסף > ἀργυρώνητον "bought with silver"
- מקנת/ὤνημα, κτῆμα "that which is purchased"


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