Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Classical Hebrew morphology and syntax, aspect, linguistics, discourse analysis, and related topics
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Isaac Fried
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby Isaac Fried » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:12 pm

I have just looked up the (מלבי"ם (1879 - 1809, and this is what he has to say
כי הנה האבן, בעת שיסדו בנין הבית ע"י זרובבל והכינו את האבן הראשה, היינו את האבן פינה שמניחים ראשונה ביסוד הבנין, מסר זרובבל את האבן ליהושע שהוא יניח אותו בהיסוד, באשר הוא כהן לאל עליון, ויהושע חקק על האבן דמות של שבעה עינים, לרמז בזה ששבעה עיני ה' המשוטטים בארץ, שהוא השפעת שבעה כוכבי לכת שע"י ינהיג ה' ההנהגה הטבעיית הסדורה מן ימי בראשית להנהיג בם את עולמו ועל ידם ישיגח בעולמו, יהיו חקוקים עתה על אבן זה, דהיינו על המקדש אשר יבנו בו, שמעתה תהיה השגחת ה' ע"י המקדש אשר ישכן שם ומשם ישגיח בעולמו.
Reasonable.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

ducky
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby ducky » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:52 am

Hello

A little correction for my words (I didn't remember it exactly)
in short, He said that it was seven eyes as a hint by that the seven eyes of God who wander the earth, that it is the influence of the seven stars that by them, God leads the earth with its natural order.

And these seven "God's eyes" that watch the earth by the influence of the stars actually take their "power" from higher seven eyes, that they (the higher eyes) give their "power" the lower "seven eyes" (the stars)

eventually, he also said that the images were images of eyes as a symbol to the protection of God
David Hunter

kwrandolph
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby kwrandolph » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:15 am

Kenneth Greifer wrote:I thought the word "eye" is feminine, so the word in Zechariah 4:10 is plural or the dual ending because it is yud mem. That is why I thought it says "pairs of eyes" or "eyes."


Actually there are two words עין — one with the masculine plural form, and the second with the feminine plural form. As far as I can tell from a quick electronic search, the word with the feminine plural refers to springs of water, and the word with the masculine plural forms refers to eyes.

By the way, the word for “eyes” in Zechariah 4:10 is in the masculine plural construct case, therefore has no mem.

Karl W. Randolph.

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Jason Hare
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:22 pm

ducky wrote:Hi Jason, I don't know what Sauron is[.]
I checked in Wiki and I found out it was a character from a TV-Show which I didn't see[.]
So I don't know about it[.]

Isn't The Lord of the Rings a basic reading requirement today?

(By the way, is there any chance of convincing you to use a period [full stop] at the end of your sentences?)
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel

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Jason Hare
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:27 pm

ducky wrote:and last note about the gender of עין
in this case, it writes שבעה עינים as treating the עין in a masculine way

This use of שִׁבְעָה עֵינַ֫יִם (instead of the expected שֶׁ֫בַע עֵינַ֫יִם) recalls the way that Daniel's use of שָׁבוּעִים in lieu of the anticipated שָׁבוּעוֹת gives one pause.
Jason Hare
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ducky
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby ducky » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:33 pm

Hello Jason

These stories are not for me

And as for convincing me to use the period mark at the end of every sentence, I think you might succeed in that
David Hunter

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Jason Hare
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:34 pm

kwrandolph wrote:As far as I can tell from a quick electronic search, the word with the feminine plural refers to springs of water, and the word with the masculine plural forms refers to eyes.

This is incorrect. The word עַ֫יִן for "eye" is normally feminine.

תֶּחֱזֶ֫ינָה עֵינֶ֫יךָ "your eyes shall behold (fp)" (Isa. 33:17)
עֵינֶ֫יךָ תִרְאֶ֫ינָה "your eyes shall see (fp)" (Isa. 33:20)

עַתָּה אֱלֹהַי יִהְיוּ־נָא עֵינֶ֫יךָ פְּתֻחוֹת וְאָזְנֶ֫יךָ קַשֻּׁבוֹת לִתְפִלַּת הַמָּקוֹם הַזֶּה׃ "Now, my God, may your eyes be open (fp) and your ears attentive (fp) to the prayer of this place!" (2 Chron. 6:40)
Last edited by Jason Hare on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jason Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:36 pm

ducky wrote:These stories are not for me

Excellent stories, but to each his own. :)

ducky wrote:And as for convincing me to use the period mark at the end of every sentence, I think you might succeed in that

That would be awesome. In studying computer programming, I see that it's the habit of most coders to leave off end punctuation, and I've never understood why. A sentence seems incomplete to me when it doesn't end in punctuation.
Jason Hare
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kwrandolph
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby kwrandolph » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:36 pm

Jason Hare wrote:
kwrandolph wrote:As far as I can tell from a quick electronic search, the word with the feminine plural refers to springs of water, and the word with the masculine plural forms refers to eyes.

This is incorrect. The word עַ֫יִן for "eye" is normally feminine.


Sorry, apparently my statement is not clear. There are some feminine nouns that when they are in plural, take the masculine plural form while remaining as feminine nouns. נשים is another example of such.

When it refers to a spring or source of water, עין takes the feminine עינות.
When it refers to an eye, עין takes the masculine form of the plural, even though it is a feminine noun.

That’s what I see, unless there are more examples that prove me wrong.

Karl W. Randolph.
Last edited by kwrandolph on Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kwrandolph
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Re: Zechariah 4:10 eyes or pairs of eyes

Postby kwrandolph » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:46 pm

Jason Hare wrote:That would be awesome. In studying computer programming, I see that it's the habit of most coders to leave off end punctuation, and I've never understood why. A sentence seems incomplete to me when it doesn't end in punctuation.


That’s because a line of computer code is not a sentence. In fact, a single instruction can extend over several lines.

Even though I have never been a professional programmer, I have written thousands of lines of code. The lack of periods in coding doesn’t bother me. The lack of periods in written languages is wrong.

Karl W. Randolph.


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