Deuteronomy 32:8-9 French article

Discussion must focus on the Hebrew text (including text criticism) and its ancient translations, not on archaeology, modern language translations, or theological controversies.
Forum rules
Members will observe the rules for respectful discourse at all times!
Please sign all posts with your first and last (family) name.
Kenneth Greifer
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 French article

Postby Kenneth Greifer » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:40 pm

There was a book or an article by a scholar named Jan Joosten, that is in French. Does any one have the ability to see this book or article and tell me if it says a certain possible translation of Deuteronomy 32:8-9? Does it have a possible alternative translation that says that "...because the L-rd divided His people..." instead of saying "...because the portion of the L-rd is His people..."

32:8בְּהַנְחֵ֤ל עֶלְיוֹן֙ גּוֹיִ֔ם בְּהַפְרִיד֖וֹ בְּנֵ֣י אָדָ֑ם יַצֵּב֙ גְּבֻלֹ֣ת עַמִּ֔ים לְמִסְפַּ֖ר בְּנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃ 32:9כִּ֛י חֵ֥לֶק יְהֹוָ֖ה עַמּ֑וֹ יַעֲקֹ֖ב חֶ֥בֶל נַחֲלָתֽוֹ׃

Deutéronome 32,8-9 et les commencements de la religion d’Israël” in E. Bons, Th. Legrand, Le monothéisme biblique. Évolution, contextes et perspectives (Paris, Cerf, 2011), 91-108.

Also, does it say anything about the peoples being the tribes of Israel and not the nations? Obviously, I am asking a lot of someone because that article or chapter is pretty long and possibly hard to get, so I understand if no one looks it up. I am just asking to see if anyone wants to give it a try. I am not sure I copied the title perfectly, but I think I got it right.

Isaac Fried
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 French article

Postby Isaac Fried » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:18 pm

Reading Deut. 32:9
כִּי חֵלֶק יהוה עַמּוֹ יַעֲקֹב חֶבֶל נַחֲלָתוֹ
KJV: "For the Lord's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance"
I am reminded that חֵלֶק has nothing to do with the חָלָק, 'smooth', of Gen. 27:11
הֵן עֵשָׂו אָחִי אִישׁ שָׂעִר וְאָנֹכִי אִישׁ חָלָק
NIV: "But my brother Esau is a hairy man while I have smooth skin"
that חֶבֶל has nothing to do with the חֶבֶל, 'rope', of Joshua 2:15
וַתּוֹרִדֵם בַּחֶבֶל בְּעַד הַחַלּוֹן כִּי בֵיתָהּ בְּקִיר הַחוֹמָה
KJV: "Then she let them down by a cord through the window: for her house was upon the town wall"
NIV: " So she let them down by a rope through the window, for the house she lived in was part of the city wall"
namely, that חבל נחלה is not a piece of land enclose by a rope,
and finally that נַחֲלָה has nothing to do with the נַחַל, 'brook, spring, river', of Ps. 74:15
אַתָּה בָקַעְתָּ מַעְיָן וָנָחַל אַתָּה הוֹבַשְׁתָּ נַהֲרוֹת אֵיתָן
NIV: "It was you who opened up springs and streams; you dried up the ever-flowing rivers"
KJV: "Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood: thou driedst up mighty rivers"

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 French article

Postby Isaac Fried » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:10 pm

We recall also the נַחְלָה, 'swell, surge, deluge, torrent, surf', of Ps. 124:4-5
אֲזַי הַמַּיִם שְׁטָפוּנוּ נַחְלָה עָבַר עַל נַפְשֵׁנוּ אֲזַי עָבַר עַל נַפְשֵׁנוּ הַמַּיִם הַזֵּידוֹנִים
NIV: "the flood would have engulfed us, the torrent would have swept over us, the raging waters would have swept us away"
KJV: "Then the waters had overwhelmed us, the stream had gone over our soul: Then the proud waters had gone over our soul"

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 French article

Postby Isaac Fried » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:08 pm

Notice the cascading personal pronouns adhering to
שְׁטָפוּנוּ = שטף-הוּא-אנוּ
with הוּא referring to the performer of the act שטף, namely הַמַּיִם, the waters, and with אנוּ referring to the beneficiary of the act, namely, us.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 French article

Postby Isaac Fried » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:14 pm

In Ps. 69:3(2)
טָבַעְתִּי בִּיוֵן מְצוּלָה וְאֵין מָעֳמָד בָּאתִי בְמַעֲמַקֵּי מַיִם וְשִׁבֹּלֶת שְׁטָפָתְנִי
NIV: "I sink in the miry depths, where there is no foothold. I have come into the deep waters; the floods engulf me"
we encounter
שְׁטָפָתְנִי = שטף-את-אני
with את referring to the performer of the act שטף, namely the שִׁבֹּלֶת, the wave, and with אני referring to the beneficiary of the act, namely, I.
In Isaiah 43:2
כִּי תַעֲבֹר בַּמַּיִם אִתְּךָ אָנִי וּבַנְּהָרוֹת לֹא יִשְׁטְפוּךָ
NIV: "When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you"
we encounter
יִשְׁטְפוּךָ = היא-שטף-הוּא-אכה
with the initial היא and the last הוּא referring to the performer of the act שטף, namely the נְּהָרוֹת, the rivers, and with אכה (a variant of אתה) referring to the beneficiary of the act, namely, you.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 French article

Postby Isaac Fried » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:07 pm

Among the close relatives of שטף, 'sweep, rinse, inundate, overrun, engulf, flow over', we find the שדף of Gen. 41:6
וְהִנֵּה שֶׁבַע שִׁבֳּלִים דַּקּוֹת וּשְׁדוּפֹת קָדִים
NIV: "seven other heads of grain sprouted—thin and scorched by the east wind"
KJV: "And, behold, seven thin ears and blasted with the east wind sprung up after them"
in which שְׁטוּפֹת קָדִים = שְׁדוּפֹת קָדִים
and the שזף of Songs 1:6
אַל תִּרְאוּנִי שֶׁאֲנִי שְׁחַרְחֹרֶת שֶׁשְּׁזָפַתְנִי הַשָּׁמֶשׁ
NIV: "Do not stare at me because I am dark, because I am darkened by the sun"
KJV: "Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me"
in which שֶׁשְּׁטָפַתְנִי הַשָּׁמֶשׁ = שֶׁשְּׁזָפַתְנִי הַשָּׁמֶשׁ
with
שֶׁשְּׁזָפַתְנִי = זֶה-שזף-את-אני

Isaac Fried, Boston University


Return to “Hebrew Bible”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests