ralph wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:04 am
By the way, Is it only Ashkenazi that has a distinction between Segol and Tsere?
The Yemenites pronounce the Segol as Patah' ("a").
Actually, it is not that they pronounce the Segol in another way, but they didn't have a Segol at all.
In the Babylonian MT, there is no sign of Segol.
And basically, Every Segol in the Tiberian MT is written as Patah' in the Babylonian MT.
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Long and Short vowels are Semitic terms, but they don't fit so much to the Hebrew vowels.
The Hebrew vowels, as we can see, are not about that.
I mean, just by looking at the Qamats that once comes as a "long" vowel and once comes as a "short" vowel, tells that.
Also, we can see that the verb form of "yiqtal" is with Patah' ("short") while the "yiqtol" is with Holam ("long").
How come?
So The signs represent the quality of the vowel-sound and not its length.
**Some do say that Qamats (for example) was really a case of a length-process, and there are many theories about how and why, But that is more pre-Tiberian stuff (some goes longer back to the Biblical era).
But all of this is not really important for this issue.
Anyway, the length is more about the accented place and the pattern of the word.
But the vowel itself is not a sign for that.
(therefore I used "big" and "small" - but also this is not important)
ralph wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:04 am
If there's a rule that says that unaccented open syllables take a long vowel. That's interesting I didn't know that
Basically, an unaccented open syllable comes with a big vowel
(but remember the case of Qubuts/Shuruq, and Hiriq (with/out Y))
ralph wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:04 am
I can imagine that closed unaccented syllables take a short vowel
Except for some words in a construct state like עץ הגפן for example (the עץ stays with Tsere).
Also except when the vowel is full (with a vowel letter) like קול גדול (the קול stays with the Holam).
ralph wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:04 am
what do accented open syllables take?
Usually, it would get a big vowel.
But there are exceptions:
1. Segolites
as ילד=yeled (the first "ye" is accented and open but it has a Segol
Also words with Patah' as נער
Also the form in a longer word like ארנבת (the נבת is a Segolite form)
Also in Short Qal YQTL as ויעל (va-ya-al) (the "ya" with Patah').
2. in the words as השביעני=hish-bi-a-ni (the "a" is accented open and it has Patah')
3. also in pausal form as לקראתך (when the accented open "te" is with Segol)