Galena wrote:kwrandolph wrote:Galena wrote:Norman, …There is also nothing wrong with "..in the beginning..." despite there being no definite article to רֵאשִׁית.
How do you
know that there was no definite article? The Masoretic pointing is demonstrably wrong in enough places that we can question their pointing here too.
Karl W. Randolph.
Dear Karl, did you miss my response a few days ago to the Hosea 6:7 thread? Since you keep remarking about the masoretes I think it is time to understand your points in more detail.
You made the claim that the Masoretes preserved a pronunciation from 1300 years earlier. I disagreed with that. But I didn’t go into details, as I have covered them already in earlier posts.
Galena wrote:Now to answer your question above is simple: I do believe that the Ben Asher family of scholars got it right! Why? Because it is so obvious to everyone that there would be no argument if it was pointed with a patach. The fact it is pointed thus is not and can not be an error. It is too obvious a mistake, it is the very absolute first word, nay, the very first Vowel even, in the whole of the Torah prophets and Ketuvim so no excuses there for tiredness during thorough editing, the masoretes were as strict then as the rabbis who make the parchments on Goats skins for the mezuzah are today. Even the scrolls in the synagogue are rigorously checked that makes a spell checker on a word processing platform blush with disgrace!
Yet there are rabbis, even orthodox ones, who will disagree with the Masoretic pointing at times. I read about that decades ago and no longer have the reference to show you. That was one of the things that made me to start questioning the Masoretic pointings.
I stopped using the Masoretic points years before I was able to get an electronic text on a computer, and I’ve had unpointed electronic texts for over a decade. There are a few texts to which I can point as incorrectly pointed, but most of the time, I read without knowing what are the Masoretic points.
Galena wrote:The masoretes were a strict faithful family of scholars that sought diligently to maintain the word of God with more fear and respect
Their tradition was not only Biblical, but also influenced by the dialect of Hebrew that they spoke non-natively. It was influenced by theological traditions that they had. Both of those influenced the understanding of the words and which pointings that they applied to the text.
Galena wrote: than can be said for todays modern translations who hold the words of disgraceful Westcott and Hort of higher esteem than those of the reformers, as if to say God hid the true word for 1800 years and only in 1850 did God reveal the mistakes!
Don̦’t confuse the issue. The Erasmus text that the Reformers used was inferior even in its own day, but the Reformers used it because it was the only one widely available, where a slightly inferior text was better than none. I personally recommend the Majority Text from modern scholars because there are linguistic clues within the text that make it appear to have preserved older texts than did the Westcott and Hort version.
Galena wrote:So please explain all your reasons for your questioning of the Masoretes.
There are clues in post-Babalonian captivity Biblical books that indicate that the Jews who returned to Judea under Cyrus and later spoke not Hebrew, but Aramaic in the home and in the markets. Within a couple of generations, if not earlier, their pronunciation of Hebrew while reading the Biblical texts would be according to Aramaic rules, not Hebrew. By the time of the Masoretes a millennium later, the probability that accurate Biblical era Hebrew pronunciations were even remembered would be nil.
Secondly, I have found cases where even by meaning, the Masoretes had applied the wrong dots. But I was not in the market to bash the Masoretes, rather just to read the text, therefore I didn’t keep a record of which dots were incorrect. Now, as I wrote above, I read using an unpointed text, therefore don’t even see the Masoretic points.
Galena wrote:Kindest Regards
Chris
Yours, Karl W. Randolph.