Isaiah 51:9

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Kenneth Greifer
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Job 26:13 two possible verbs

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

26:13בְּ֭רוּחוֹ שָׁמַ֣יִם שִׁפְרָ֑ה חֹֽלֲלָ֥ה יָ֝ד֗וֹ נָחָ֥שׁ בָּרִֽיחַ׃

Is the verb חללה the polel of the verb חול or the piel of חלל? I have seen it explained both ways. Does it say God formed a serpent by His hand or pierced it?
Kenneth Greifer
Kenneth Greifer
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Isaiah 51:9

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

51:9עוּרִ֨י עוּרִ֤י לִבְשִׁי־עֹז֙ זְר֣וֹעַ יְהוָ֔ה ע֚וּרִי כִּ֣ימֵי קֶ֔דֶם דֹּר֖וֹת עוֹלָמִ֑ים הֲל֥וֹא אַתְּ־הִ֛יא הַמַּחְצֶ֥בֶת רַ֖הַב מְחוֹלֶ֥לֶת תַּנִּֽין׃

Is the verb מְחוֹלֶ֥לֶת the piel form of חלל or the poel form? I saw it described both ways on the internet. Is there a difference anyway?
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Jason Hare
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Re: Isaiah 51:9

Post by Jason Hare »

Isn't this essentially the same question that you asked on the other thread? Can we not consolidate and put them together? If you get the answer to one, you will have the answer to the other.
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Kenneth Greifer
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Re: Isaiah 51:9

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

Jason,
I wasn't sure if I put these two questions in the right section of the forum and also I wasn't sure if they should be together or not. Do whatever you think is best. Or do you want me to combine them somehow?
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Jason Hare
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Re: Isaiah 51:9

Post by Jason Hare »

I'll combine them. I'm outside right now on my phone. If no one has answered when I get home, I'll venture an opinion.
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Jason Hare
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Re: Isaiah 51:9

Post by Jason Hare »

Holladay says polel.
Davidson says poʿel.
Gesenius says poʿel.
Weingreen says polel.

I'd argue that polel is a specific type of poʿel, in that it is poʿel for geminate roots in which ע = ל.

The same, of course, with סובב.
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
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kwrandolph
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Re: Job 26:13 two possible verbs

Post by kwrandolph »

Kenneth Greifer wrote:26:13בְּ֭רוּחוֹ שָׁמַ֣יִם שִׁפְרָ֑ה חֹֽלֲלָ֥ה יָ֝ד֗וֹ נָחָ֥שׁ בָּרִֽיחַ׃

Is the verb חללה the polel of the verb חול or the piel of חלל? I have seen it explained both ways. Does it say God formed a serpent by His hand or pierced it?
Why not a simple Qal Qatal of the verb חלל to pierce? יד takes a feminine verb.

Karl W. Randolph.
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Jason Hare
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Re: Job 26:13 two possible verbs

Post by Jason Hare »

kwrandolph wrote:
Kenneth Greifer wrote:26:13בְּ֭רוּחוֹ שָׁמַ֣יִם שִׁפְרָ֑ה חֹֽלֲלָ֥ה יָ֝ד֗וֹ נָחָ֥שׁ בָּרִֽיחַ׃

Is the verb חללה the polel of the verb חול or the piel of חלל? I have seen it explained both ways. Does it say God formed a serpent by His hand or pierced it?
Why not a simple Qal Qatal of the verb חלל to pierce? יד takes a feminine verb.

Karl W. Randolph.
Ḥolalah cannot be Qal.
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

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ducky
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Re: Isaiah 51:9

Post by ducky »

Hi Jason,

Actually it can, as a participle.
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Re: Isaiah 51:9

Post by Jason Hare »

ducky wrote:Hi Jason,

Actually it can, as a participle.
He said Qal Qatal. ;) That it cannot be.
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
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