The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

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Isaac Fried
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The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by Isaac Fried »

Today I have heard an ashkenazi, very experienced and punctilious public reader בעל קורא clearly read the name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9
מָחֲלַת בַּת יִשְׁמָעֵאל בֶּן אַבְרָהָם אֲחוֹת נְבָיוֹת
as MAXALAT, not MAXLAT.
I would have done the same.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
www.hebrewetymology.com
ducky
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Re: The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by ducky »

So he read it according to the vowels.
What is the catch?
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Isaac Fried
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Re: The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by Isaac Fried »

ducky writes
What is the catch?
There is indeed no catch, except that מָחֲלַת is written with a hataf-patah. How do you read the word הֶחֳדַלְתִּי in
Judges 9:9
וַיֹּאמֶר לָהֶם הַזַּיִת הֶחֳדַלְתִּי אֶת דִּשְׁנִי אֲשֶׁר בִּי יְכַבְּדוּ אֱלֹהִים וַאֲנָשִׁים

Isaac Fried, Boston University
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Jason Hare
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Re: The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by Jason Hare »

Personally, I'd read it as heḥŏḏáltî [hechodálti].
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ducky
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Re: The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by ducky »

Same. Just as the vowels tells us.
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Re: The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by Jason Hare »

ducky wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:38 pm Same. Just as the vowels tells us.
I'm not sure what brought up the topic of the thread. Would someone have suggested reading it otherwise?
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Jemoh66
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Re: The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by Jemoh66 »

Isaac Fried wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:58 pm Today I have heard an ashkenazi, very experienced and punctilious public reader בעל קורא clearly read the name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9
מָחֲלַת בַּת יִשְׁמָעֵאל בֶּן אַבְרָהָם אֲחוֹת נְבָיוֹת
as MAXALAT, not MAXLAT.
I would have done the same.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
www.hebrewetymology.com
What the pointing is showing here is that there is a slight difference between all three of these /a/ vowels. But they are indeed all three /a/’s. The qametz is long (double length), and may be an indication of tending towards an o. The chataf patach is a half length. The patach is normal length a basic short vowel due being in a closed syllable. -lat and ma- have the same length. The middle syllable, being subject to the historical rhythm preserved by the pointing, occurs before the accent that is placed on the final syllable, so that /a/ vowel in the middle syllable almost disappears into a schwa.
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Jason Hare
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Re: The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by Jason Hare »

Well, maybe the question was because we actually find forms like יַחְשֹׁב and יַחֲשֹׁב in the biblical text. That is, sometimes there is the "echo vowel" (the chataf), and sometimes it is simply a closed syllable without it. If the chataf is printed, you should read it; if it isn't, you shouldn't. That is, if you're a careful reader (like the בעל קורא in the OP).
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ducky
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Re: The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by ducky »

Hi Jason,

But it is not the same form.

The form of מחלת, in this case, is similar to the form of בשמת (the second name of מחלת) or צרפת and so on (which have the Sheva in the second letter).
In words like צרפת or בשמת the Sheva is mobile.
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Re: The name מָחֲלַת of Gen. 28:9

Post by Jason Hare »

ducky wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:32 pm Hi Jason,

But it is not the same form.

The form of מחלת, in this case, is similar to the form of בשמת (the second name of מחלת) or צרפת and so on (which have the Sheva in the second letter).
In words like צרפת or בשמת the Sheva is mobile.
I was just thinking that maybe he thought that people don't pronounce the chataf-patach because we tend to say yachshov. I wasn't suggesting that they were the same form. I was trying to understand why he brought this up.
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

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