What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

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Kenneth Greifer
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What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

1 Samuel 2:10
יהוה יחתו מריביו עליו בשמים ירעם יהוה ידין אפסי ארץ ויתן עז למלכו וירם קרן משיחו
I have seen different words written for this quote.
Which version sounds best to you all?
Kenneth Greifer
ducky
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Re: What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by ducky »

Can you write the differences that you see
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Jason Hare
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Re: What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by Jason Hare »

Definitely a problematic verse.

יְהוָ֞ה יֵחַ֣תּוּ‬ מְרִיבָ֗ו || The NRSV separates יהוה off as a vocative or an exclamatory. I think it would be better understood as fronted here for focus. That is, instead of יחתו מריבי יהוה, we have יהוה pulled out of the phrase and placed at the beginning to call focus to him rather than to his enemies. "And as for Yahweh, those who strive with him will be broken." I might read it differently, taking the subject as implied from the previous verse (רְשָׁעִ֖ים בַּחֹ֣שֶׁךְ יִדָּ֑מּוּ - "The wicked will be brought to nought in the darkness"), and repoint מֵרִיבוֹ as "from his striving." That is, "as for Yahweh, they [the wicked] will be broken from his striving [with them]." The Syriac and some other textual witnesses has a singular verb, which would allow us to simply make this active: "Yahweh will bring his foes to nought." That might be more elegant.

עָלָו֙‬ בַּשָּׁמַ֣יִם יַרְעֵ֔ם || Strangely, the NRSV translates עלו as if it were עליון "the Most High." That doesn't seem justified, but the translators are simply trying to make sense of a difficult text. Have you seen how the LXX translated this single verse? I've attached it to the post. The whole thing is just verse 10 of the chapter! The implied subject is still the fronted יהוה. Since the ketiv has מריבו (as if it were singular), we should probably take עלו as a reference to that foe and translate it as "he will thunder against him in the heavens." Consequently, if we take it as plural, then maybe this should be understood as a sort of collective: "he will thunder against them in the heavens."

יְהוָ֖ה יָדִ֣ין אַפְסֵי־אָ֑רֶץ || "Yahweh will judge the ends of the earth."

וְיִתֶּן־עֹ֣ז לְמַלְכֹּ֔ו || "And he will give strength to his king."

וְיָרֵ֖ם קֶ֥רֶן מְשִׁיחֹֽו׃ || "And he will lift up the horn of his anointed." Of course, "his anointed" is the same as "his king" from the previous line. The verbs here are not vav-consecutives.

With all this taken into consideration, it seems like the Lexham English Bible (LEB) handles the text the best from among the translations that I looked at:

Yahweh will shatter his adversaries;
he will thunder against them in the heavens.
Yahweh will judge the ends of the earth.
He will give strength to his king
and will exalt the might of his anointed one. (1 Sam 2:10, LEB)
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Jason Hare
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Re: What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by Jason Hare »

ducky wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:21 pm Can you write the differences that you see
I think he meant "different translations" rather than "different words."
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Re: What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by Jason Hare »

A possibility:

יהוה יְחִתֶּ֫(נּ)וּ מֵרִיבוֹ
עָלָו בַּשָּׁמַ֫יִם יַרְעֵם
יהוה יָדִין אַפְסֵי־אָ֫רֶץ
וְיִתֶּן־עֹז לְמַלְכּוֹ
וְיָרֵם קֶ֫רֶן מְשִׁיחוֹ׃

Yahweh will break him from his striving [with him],
He will thunder over him in the heavens.
Yahweh will judge the ends of the earth,
and he will give strength to his king,
and he will raise the horn of his anointed.


Perhaps there's a nun that could be placed in the first word in red, to allow for a 3ms suffix on a hiphil imperfect (compare to Job 31:34 with the 1cs suffix).
Jason Hare
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Kenneth Greifer
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Re: What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

ducky wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:21 pm Can you write the differences that you see
I saw the word עלו in some books.
I thought the quote could be similar to what Jason said about מר'בו.
"The Lord will be brought low (will be low), and from His fighting (His trouble), they (the evil ones) went up עלו."
I thought the verb was a form of נחת instead of תתח. It was just a wild guess.
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Re: What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by Jason Hare »

God would certainly not be weakened or brought low. That isn't a possible reading.
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Re: What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

Jason Hare wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:15 pm God would certainly not be weakened or brought low. That isn't a possible reading.
I thought it could mean that He was treated badly, but not actually made low in some way. I thought it was kind of symbolic and not meant literally. Maybe it was from the point of view of the evil people, but then G-d punished them for it.
Kenneth Greifer
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Re: What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by ducky »

Hi,

ה' יחתו מריבו
This is a case in which the attribute is put in front.
Like: Dan - his brother loves him (Dan's brother loves him).
Another similar case, for example, is in 2Sam 22:31
האל תמים דרכו
(= תמים דרך האל)
******************

ה' יחתו מריבו עלו בשמים ירעם

[KJV (/NKJV)]: The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces from heaven He will thunder upon them.

[NIV]: Those who oppose the Lord will be broken. The Most High will thunder from heaven.

"From heaven" = בשמים.
The prefix B=ב has also the meaning of prefix M=מ (from).

*******************

עלו

[KJV] writes: "upon them" - עלו.
The word עלו is in a singular form, and the translation writes it as "upon them" (and not "upon him").
And that is a matter of how this part is understood.
and it is usually explained, that God thunders upon each and every one of them, or, any one of them.

[NIV] doesn't write "upon them" at all.
But instead, he started this part with "The most high".
עלו=the most high.
עלו in the form of ענו (humble).
and just like ענו='anav is from ענה/עני (in the meaning of lowness),
So is עלו='alav is from עלה/עלי - in the meaning of "highness".
And so, this word is read by NIV as a nominal adjective with this meaning (similar to the word עליון that is also used to describe God).
*************************************

I guess that these are the main differences that you see

********

When it is said "The adversaries of the Lord", it can be understood as The adversaries of Israel (the Lord's people) since usually when the foreign people go against Israel, they actually go also against their God, and vice versa.
(and in other places, God calls Israel's enemies as his).
*********************

Another general thing about this part...
There is an opinion that this last part of Hannah's song (this part) is about her son Samuel.
In her song, she praised God first, and then, she finishes it with a blessing for her son.
And it would be something like this:

ה' יחתו מריבו
God, may his (Samuel's) adversaries will be broken.

עלו בשמים ירעם - For him (my son), God will thunder from the sky.
(As it is seen later after Samuel prayed to God for help against the philistines -
in 7:10: וירעם ה' בקול גדל על פלשתים.
[NIV]: "But that day the Lord thundered with loud thunder against the Philistines."

Here, עלו comes in the meaning of "for him" (like in Judges 9:17 and more)).

ה' ידין אפסי ארץ - God, may my son will judge all of the places in Israel.
As it later happened, as it is said in 1Sam 7:16:
[NIV]: "From year to year he went on a circuit from Bethel to Gilgal to Mizpah, judging Israel in all those places".

ויתן עז למלכו - and God will bring strength to the king that my son will crown - and this is Saul.

וירם קרן משיחו - and this is about David, that Samuel didn't crown him, but only anointed him.

(Therefore, מלכו is for Saul, and משיחו is for David).

*****************************

Last thing...
You said something about the word עלו which gave you the idea of "going up".

This reading is also found in the Midrash, and Rashi refers to it.
And he writes:
"Let Him thunder against them from heaven. The spelling is עָלוּ "they have ascended" meaning that even if they have ascended to the heavens, He thunders upon them and casts them down".
David Hunter
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Re: What does 1 Samuel 2:10 say in Hebrew?

Post by kwrandolph »

Kenneth Greifer wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:54 pm 1 Samuel 2:10
יהוה יחתו מריביו עליו בשמים ירעם יהוה ידין אפסי ארץ ויתן עז למלכו וירם קרן משיחו
I have seen different words written for this quote.
Which version sounds best to you all?

I looked up the Aleppo text and found the following:
יהוה יחתו מריבו עלו בשמים ירעם—יהוה ידין אפסי ארץ ויתן עז למלכו וירם קרן משיחו

Then the DSS has:
יהוה יחת מריבו
then goes on with a completely different reading.

So which of the three sounds best to you?

My vote goes for the DSS for the first three words, then the Aleppo text for the rest.

Karl W. Randolph.
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