accent in Micah 5:5

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Glenn Dean
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accent in Micah 5:5

Post by Glenn Dean »

Hi:

In Micah 5:5, the first word has an accent I'm not sure what it is - here's the word: וְרָע֞וּ

I'm assuming it's some sort of conjunctive accent?? (my guess is conjunctive because the following word is the direct object of this verb).

BTW, as a side note, this word seems to have a dagesh forte in the resh (he, i.e. Shlomo Bertonov, seems to pronounce it as 'er - ra - oow', I can definitely hear the double-resh, but I would of pronounced it as 've - ra - oow')

Thanxs,

Glenn
Last edited by Glenn Dean on Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jason Hare
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Re: accent in Micah 5:5

Post by Jason Hare »

That's called גֵּרְשַׁ֫יִם gersháyim.

Why do you think it has a dagesh?
Jason Hare
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Glenn Dean
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Re: accent in Micah 5:5

Post by Glenn Dean »

thanxs Jason for the info! I'm not sure how the geresh is used.

There is not a dagesh on the resh, but just from the pronunciation of the word it sounds like a double-resh (i.e. 'er - ra - oow')

I did find this info at wiki on gershayim: " In older texts, to indicate the transliteration of a foreign word. This use corresponds to English's use of italics. For example: in printed works of Rashi, the town of Rashi's birth, Troyes, is spelled טרוי״ש‎. " (not sure if this is applicable to my case though)

Glenn
ducky
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Re: accent in Micah 5:5

Post by ducky »

The Gershayim that you read in Wiki is something else.
This is a matter of writing methods.
Today, no one uses Gershayim to indicate a foreign word.
But it is used commonly to indicate initial letters of two words.
For example:
The United States is called in Hebrew ארצות הברית
And it can be written with initial letters ארה"ב (with Gershayim).

***********************
The Gershayim that you see in the Bible is just one of the tropes.
It doesn't affect the Letter R's (or any letter's) pronunciation.
David Hunter
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Jason Hare
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Re: accent in Micah 5:5

Post by Jason Hare »

As David said, there are two different things called "gersháyim" (״ versus ◌֞). One is the double quote mark that indicates abbreviations:

ד״ר = דּוֹקְטוֹר
(Dr. = Doctor)

The other goes atop a letter and indicates that a word should be sung a certain way. It is present on the word פרי in Genesis 1:11:

וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֗ים תַּֽדְשֵׁ֤א הָאָ֨רֶץ֙ דֶּ֗שֶׁא עֵ֚שֶׂב מַזְרִ֣יעַ זֶ֔רַע עֵ֣ץ פְּרִ֞י עֹ֤שֶׂה פְּרִי֙ לְמִינ֔וֹ אֲשֶׁ֥ר זַרְעוֹ־ב֖וֹ עַל־הָאָ֑רֶץ וַֽיְהִי־כֵֽן׃

Notice the difference in position: ד״ר versus דוקט֞ור.
Jason Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: accent in Micah 5:5

Post by Jason Hare »

Glenn Dean wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:12 am just from the pronunciation of the word it sounds like a double-resh (i.e. 'er - ra - oow')
Are you listening to a specific recording? There's no reason for anyone to be doubling the resh. It's simply vərāʿû.
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
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Glenn Dean
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Re: accent in Micah 5:5

Post by Glenn Dean »

Thanxs Ducky and Jason for the great info!
Glenn Dean
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Re: accent in Micah 5:5

Post by Glenn Dean »

Yes, I'm listening to an audio reading of Micah by Shlomo Bertonov (I had to purchase the audio so it's not on youtube or anything). To me it sounds like "er - ra - oow" (but that's how I'm hearing it, and my hearing skills are truly sub-par)

Glenn
Isaac Fried
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Re: accent in Micah 5:5

Post by Isaac Fried »

גרש is a variant of קרש and גרס, 'a chip, a flake, a scrap, a fragment, a grain.' Then, a petite marking, a tiny overhanging jot, a fleck of ink, made by a quick short scrape of the pen. In Hebrew today גריסים is 'grits'.
In Micah 5:5(6)
וְרָע֞וּ אֶת אֶ֤רֶץ אַשּׁוּר֙ בַּחֶ֔רֶב
KJV: " And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword"
NIV: "who will rule the land of Assyria with the sword,"
LEB: "And they will shepherd the land of Assyria with the sword"
וְרָע֞וּ ve-rau-uuu is made tremulous to vocally simulate and call attention to the crushing and dispersion meant by this word.
The exuberant actor Shlomo Bertonov reads it with flair and insistence as ve-rrrrau, regardless of any seen or unseen dagesh.
Recall also the word וַיְמָאֵ֓ן with a shalshetet over it in Gen. 39:8 on Joseph and Potipar's wife, to point out his struggle with himself.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
www.hebrewetymology.com
Glenn Dean
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Re: accent in Micah 5:5

Post by Glenn Dean »

that's interesting Isaac - thanxs! LOL - "exuberant actor" - he does, at times, reads "with a flare", many times speeding up, and many times slowing down, changing his intonation (his reading is very-very different from the "standard audio" at, for example, http://www.mechon-mamre.org/mp3/t1805.mp3)

So I think what I'm hearing is just him "rolling the resh" alot longer than normal (to the point where I think I was hearing ver-ra-oow (or even er-ra-oow)).



Glenn
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