Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

A forum for discussion about writing in ancient Hebrew, and for practicing writing in Hebrew. If you post in this forum, you are inviting people to critique what you have written and suggest ways to improve it.

Private subforums can be created for groups who want to practice together without exposing their mistakes to the world, or this can be done in public.
Forum rules
Members will observe the rules for respectful discourse at all times!
Please sign all posts with your first and last (family) name.
kwrandolph
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:51 am

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by kwrandolph »

Jason Hare wrote:Here's the next one, guys:
(6) David brought the priest near unto him and he inquired of [בּ] the Lord saying, ‘Wilt Thou give this city in my hand when I shall fight against it?’
This sentence is so unlike anything in Biblical Hebrew that anyone who tried to translate it close to word for word will end up with a mish-mash of what? There’s nothing like this in Tanakh. But an idea of how an ancient Israelite may have said this idea can be found by looking at 1 Kings 1:28, 32, 2 Samuel 5:19, 1 Samuel 17 …
Spoiler: show
[right]ויקרא דוד לו לכהן וישאל ביהוה לאמר התלך עמי אל העיר הזאת להלחם בה התתנה בידי[/right]

Or a more direct translation of what I wrote, “David summoned the priest to him in order to ask of the Lord saying, ‘Will you go with me unto this city to war against it? Will you give it into my hand?’”
Karl W. Randolph.
ducky
Posts: 656
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by ducky »

the usage of root קרב in Hiphil as bringing someone near is quite common in the Torah.
Such as: Levi 8:13

**
And you already gave a reference to 2Sam which it is in the 1st person
so why did you write התלך and not האלך להלחם or האעלה על?
David Hunter
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1187
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by Jason Hare »

Next one!
(7) Jacob saw Rachel and he drew near unto her and he said, ‘The daughter of whom art thou?’; and she said unto him, ‘I am the daughter of Laban’. And Jacob told (to) her that he (was) the son of her father’s sister.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1187
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by Jason Hare »

(7) Jacob saw Rachel and he drew near unto her and he said, ‘The daughter of whom art thou?’; and she said unto him, ‘I am the daughter of Laban’. And Jacob told (to) her that he (was) the son of her father’s sister.
My submission:
Spoiler: show
(7) וַיַּרְא יַעֲקֹב אֶת־רָחֵל וַיִּגַּשׁ אֵלֶיהָ וַיֹּאמַר בַּת־מִי אַתְּ וַתֹּ֫אמֶר לוֹ בַּת־לָבָן אָנֹכִי וַיֹּ֫אמֶר לָהּ יַעֲקֹב כִּי הוּא בֶּן־אֲחוֹת אָבִיהָ׃
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1187
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by Jason Hare »

The "he drew near unto her" of this exercise is surely to contrast with the "he brought him near unto him" in the previous exercise. That is, the niphal is being contrasted with the hiphil, and both should be related to the root נג״שׁ: intransitive as וַיִּגַּשׁ (niphal) and transitive as וַיַּגֵּשׁ (hiphil). Not using that root in the previous exercise would have caused us to miss this connection.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
kwrandolph
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:51 am

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by kwrandolph »

Jason Hare wrote:Next one!
(7) Jacob saw Rachel and he drew near unto her and he said, ‘The daughter of whom art thou?’; and she said unto him, ‘I am the daughter of Laban’. And Jacob told (to) her that he (was) the son of her father’s sister.
This one was pretty easy. Basically take Genesis 29:10–12, delete many words and make a few other tweaks, then it came up.
Spoiler: show
[right]וירא יעקב את רחל ויגש אליה ויאמר בת מי את ותאמר בת לבן אנכי ויגד לה כי בן אחות אביה הוא[/right]
Karl W. Randolph.
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1187
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by Jason Hare »

kwrandolph wrote:This one was pretty easy. Basically take Genesis 29:10–12, delete many words and make a few other tweaks, then it came up.
I literally type it out with my keyboard and add vowels when I've finished the construction. It is, after all, a composition challenge. :? If you have an on-screen keyboard, maybe you could use that to peck out the letters?

Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
kwrandolph
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:51 am

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by kwrandolph »

Jason Hare wrote:I literally type it out with my keyboard and add vowels when I've finished the construction. It is, after all, a composition challenge. :? If you have an on-screen keyboard, maybe you could use that to peck out the letters?
I can switch keyboards on my computer then touch type Hebrew. But I never bothered to learn the vowel points because I never use them.

The composition part in an exercise like this is to know where the copying and pasting stop, and the tweaking begins. The tweaking is original composition. Over half of what I wrote is tweaking. Even the copying and pasting become original composition when so little of the original is maintained in the final product.

This is not like the previous sentence, where I took examples even from different books in order to come up with something that seemed to fit the meaning of the sentence.

Karl W. Randolph.
User avatar
Jason Hare
Posts: 1187
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by Jason Hare »

kwrandolph wrote:I can switch keyboards on my computer then touch type Hebrew. But I never bothered to learn the vowel points because I never use them.
I think we're past me expecting you to put vowel points on the compositions. ;)

But, it would be cool if we could all be expected to compose in a fuller sense. I mean, go ahead and look things up for help or to compare, but do the composition yourself first.

You can use an on-screen keyboard (they are native to Windows and iOS - and even telephones) or use a Hebrew virtual keyboard (like the one here) if you have troubles pulling one up.

That makes it a challenge and forces us to try to come up with it ourselves before leaning on how others or how the biblical text expresses it.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
Jonathan Beck
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 5:16 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Contact:

Re: Weingreen Composition - Exercise 30, Number 6

Post by Jonathan Beck »

(6) David brought the priest near unto him and he inquired of [בּ] the Lord saying, ‘Wilt Thou give this city in my hand when I shall fight against it?’

Not sure about some of this.
Spoiler: show
וָיַבִּיא דָוִד אֶת־הַכֹּהָנִים וַיִּשְׁאַל בַּיהוה לֵאמֹר הֲנָתַתָּ אֶת־הָעִיר הַזֶּה אֶל־יַדִּי כָאֲשֶׁר נִלְחֲמִי עַלֶיהָ
Post Reply