Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

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Jason Hare
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Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by Jason Hare »

Figured we could get started on a new thread for Exercise 31. This one is a bit long. Jonathan asked that we do one drill per thread, so we'll try that and see how it goes.
(1) And it came to pass when the prophet read these words in the book which the priest had found in the house of God that (waw consec.) the king rent his garments and he cried, ‘This people hath indeed sinned before the Lord our God’. And he made all the people swear (in) that day, from great to (‘and until’) small to serve the Lord and to forsake the gods of the land.
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by Jason Hare »

My submission:
Spoiler: show
(8) וַיְהִי בִּקְרֹא הַנָּבִיא אֶת־הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵ֫לֶּה בַּסֵּ֫פֶר אֲשֶׁר מָצָא הַכֹּהֵן בְּבֵית הָֽאֱלֹהִים וַיִּקְרַע הַמֶּ֫לֶךְ אֶת־בְּגָדָיו וַיִּצְעַק חָטֹא חָטָא הָעָם הַזֶּה לִפְנֵי יַהְוֶה [יְהוָה] אֱלֹהֵ֫ינוּ וַיַּשְׁבַּע אֶת־כָּל־הָעָם בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא מִגָּדֹל וְעַד קָטֹן לַעֲבֹד אֶת־יַהְוֶה [יְהוָה] וְלַעֲזֹב אֶת־אֱלִילֵי [אֱלֹהֵי] הָאָ֫רֶץ׃
I've used בִּקְרֹא after וַיְהִי to establish a temporal backdrop for the first vav-consecutive, וַיִּקְרַע. Everything that leads up to that verb is providing the setting for the narrative string.

This would seem to be from the time of Josiah, who was king when a scroll of the law "was found" in the neglected Temple as they were looking at how to renovate it.

I read the "have indeed sinned" as having an intensified verb, so I used חָטֹא חָטַא with the infinitive absolute.

וַיַּשְׁבַּע is vav-consecutive of הִשְׁבִּיעַ "he caused {s.b.} to swear." Contrast this with וַיִּשָּׁבַע in the niphal, from נִשְׁבַּע "he swore."
Jason Hare
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www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
ducky
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by ducky »

Hi Jason, Nice translation.

(only change the vowels on חטא and on ההוא)

****
A note about the combination of מקטן ועד גדול (or מגדול ועד קטן)...

The usage of this combination up to the late biblical period is
מקטֹן ועד גדול (Qaton)

In the late biblical period, it is switched to מגדול ועד קטָן (Qatan)
(appears once)

******************
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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by Jason Hare »

ducky wrote:(only change the vowels on חטא and on ההוא)
תודה. תוקן.‏
ducky wrote:A note about the combination of מקטן ועד גדול (or מגדול ועד קטן)...

The usage of this combination up to the late biblical period is
מקטֹן ועד גדול (Qaton)

In the late biblical period, it is switched to מגדול ועד קטָן (Qatan)
(appears once)
I wasn't aware. I was just kinda going by the word order in his exercise and didn't think too much about it.
Jason Hare
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www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
Jonathan Beck
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by Jonathan Beck »

Here is mine. Wasn't sure what to do with some of it.

(1) And it came to pass when the prophet read these words in the book which the priest had found in the house of God that (waw consec.) the king rent his garments and he cried, ‘This people hath indeed sinned before the Lord our God’. And he made all the people swear (in) that day, from great to (‘and until’) small to serve the Lord and to forsake the gods of the land.
Spoiler: show
וַיְהִי (כַּאֲשֶׁר) (כִ)קְרֹא הַנָּבִיא הַדְּבָרִים הַאֵלֶה בַסֵּפֶר אֲשֶׁר מָצָא הַכֹּהֵן בַּבֵת־אֱלֹהִים וַיִּקרַע אֶת־בְּגָדָיו וַיְצַעַק אָף כִּי חָטְאוּ הָעָם הַזֶּה לִפְנֵי יהוה אֱלֹהֵינוּ וַיַשְׁבַּע אֶת־כָל־הָעָם בְּיוֹם הַהוּא מִן־הַגָּדֹל וְעַד הַקָּטָן לַעֲזֹֹב אֶת־יהוה וְלַעֲזֹב אֶת־אֱלֹהֵי הָעָרֶץ׃
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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by Jason Hare »

Jonathan Beck wrote:
Spoiler: show
וַיְהִי (כַּאֲשֶׁר) (כִ)קְרֹא הַנָּבִיא הַדְּבָרִים הַאֵלֶה בַסֵּפֶר אֲשֶׁר מָצָא הַכֹּהֵן בַּבֵת־אֱלֹהִים וַיִּקרַע אֶת־בְּגָדָיו וַיְצַעַק אָף כִּי חָטְאוּ הָעָם הַזֶּה לִפְנֵי יהוה אֱלֹהֵינוּ וַיַשְׁבַּע אֶת־כָל־הָעָם בְּיוֹם הַהוּא מִן־הַגָּדֹל וְעַד הַקָּטָן לַעֲזֹֹב אֶת־יהוה וְלַעֲזֹב אֶת־אֱלֹהֵי הָעָרֶץ׃
I don't think I've ever seen a good explanation of the difference between כְּ־ and בְּ־ with the infinitive construct. So, I don't know why I chose בִּקְרֹא over כִּקְרֹא. Maybe that's something that we could look into or keep our eyes open for. Either way, כַּאֲשֶׁר feels a bit odd after וַיְהִי. I think I'd just delete that as an option.

Before הדברים האלה the DDOM is missing (את), as is the yod from בבית־אלהים. In words like זית and בית, the yod isn't going to drop out in the construct. The pointing on ויצעק is off: the syllable with the yod is closed (vay-yits-ʿak), so it should have a sheva. In the phrase את־כל־העם, there can be no justification for not making the kaf hard. As a rule, make word-initial begedkefet letters hard, even when they follow words that end in vowels. Yes, it happens in the biblical text that you will find word-initial begedkefets soft, but there is no necessity in it, and it also just as likely doesn't happen. Either way, better to err on the side of caution. (LOL - as if we were taking risks!)

Since ביום ההוא is a definite expression, there should be an article tucked inside ביום. In the final expressions, I think you meant לעבד את יהוה ולעזב את אלהי הארץ (notice that ארץ has alef, not ayin). You don't want the people to abandon God and to abandon idols.
Jason Hare
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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by Jason Hare »

Should we move forward?
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S_Walch
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by S_Walch »

Hey guys,

I'll be catching up with you all this weekend (been busy with some other things this week), so please move ahead if you want!
Ste Walch
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by Jason Hare »

S_Walch wrote:Hey guys,

I'll be catching up with you all this weekend (been busy with some other things this week), so please move ahead if you want!
I'm sure that we can wait a couple of days. :)
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
S_Walch
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.1

Post by S_Walch »

Okay, here's mine:
Spoiler: show
ויהי כי הנביא יקרא את הדברים האלה בספר אשר הכהן מצא בבית אלהים ומלך קרע את־בגדיו ויקרא חטא העם הזה לפני יהוה אלהינו והשביע כל העם ביום ההוא מגדל ועד קטן לעבד ליהוה ולעזב אלהי הארץ
וַיְהִי כִּי הַנְּבִיא יִּקְרָא אֶת־הַדְּבָרִים הַאֵלֶּה בַסֵּפֶר אֲשֶׁר הַכֺּהֵן מָצָא בְּבֵית אֱלֹהִים וּמֶלֶךְ קָרָע אֵֶת־בְּגָדָיו וַיְּקֵרֵא חָטָא הָעָם הַזֶּה לִפְנֵי יהוה אֱלֺהֵינוּ וְהִשְֹבִּיעַ כֺּל הָעָם בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא מִגָּדֺל וְעַד קָּטֺן לַעֲבֺד לַיהוה וְלַעֲזְב אֱלֹהֵי הַאָרֵץ
Ste Walch
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