Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

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Jason Hare
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Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Jason Hare »

(4) There dwelt in the land of Israel a people who served not the Lord, and the Lord sent amongst them the beasts of the wilderness and they consumed their sheep and their cattle. And the ruler sent unto the king saying: ‘Let the king send (to) us a priest from the children of Israel to whose voice (“who to his voice”) we will hearken according to (“as”) all that he shall say unto us.’
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Jason Hare »

My submission:
Spoiler: show
וַיֵּ֫שֶׁב בְּאֶ֫רֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל עַם אֲשֶׁר לֹא עָבַד אֵת יַהְוֶה וַיִּשְׁלַח יַהְוֶה לְקִרְבָּם בַּהֲמוֹת בַּר וַיֹּאכְלוּ אֵת צֹאנָם וְאֵת בְּקָרָם וַיִּשְׁלַח הַמֹּשֵׁל אֶל־הַמֶּ֫לֶךְ לֵאמֹר יִשְׁלַח לָ֫נוּ הַמֶּ֫לֶךְ כֹּהֵן מִבְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֲשֶׁר נִשְׁמַע לְקוֹלוֹ כְּכָל־אֲשֶׁר־יֹאמַר לָ֫נוּ׃
Jason Hare
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www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

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Jonathan Beck
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Jonathan Beck »

Here is mine. I did some things a little differently. This was a tricky one.
Spoiler: show
וַיֵּשֵׁב שָׁם בְּעֶרֶץ־יִשְׂרָאֵל עַם הֱעֶבַד אֶת־יהוה וַיִּשְׁלַח בָּם הַחֲיַת־הַמִּדְבַּר וַיִּקְלָה אֶת צאֹנֵיהֶם וּבְכַרְהֶם וַיִּשְׁלַח הַמָּשָׁל אֶל־הַמֶּלֶךְ לֵאמֹר יִשְׁלַךְ הַמֶּלֶךְ אַלֵינוּ כֹהֵן מִבַּנִים אֲשֶׁר לַקּוֹלוֹ נִשְׁמַע כַּשֲׁשֶׁר כָּל־יְדַבֵּר אַלֵינוּ
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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Jason Hare »

Jonathan Beck wrote:Here is mine. I did some things a little differently. This was a tricky one.
Spoiler: show
וַיֵּשֵׁב שָׁם בְּעֶרֶץ־יִשְׂרָאֵל עַם הֱעֶבַד אֶת־יהוה וַיִּשְׁלַח בָּם הַחֲיַת־הַמִּדְבַּר וַיִּקְלָה אֶת צאֹנֵיהֶם וּבְכַרְהֶם וַיִּשְׁלַח הַמָּשָׁל אֶל־הַמֶּלֶךְ לֵאמֹר יִשְׁלַךְ הַמֶּלֶךְ אַלֵינוּ כֹהֵן מִבַּנִים אֲשֶׁר לַקּוֹלוֹ נִשְׁמַע כַּשֲׁשֶׁר כָּל־יְדַבֵּר אַלֵינוּ
Same issue with ערץ for ארץ as in a previous post. Keep an eye out for that.

There should be a negative in the "who served not the Lord." You've left out "a people," which is probably the cause of the problem. וישב... עם אשר לא עבדו את יהוה - The word "there" is not "there" (Lat. ibi; Grk. ἐκεῖ; Heb. שם). Sometimes it's just a filler word, as it is here. "There once was a man named Bill" doesn't mean that Bill was there, but only that he existed.

In the phrase הַחֲיַת־הַמִּדְבַּר - is that a doubled article?

Should ויקלה be ותאכל "and she ate"? Narrative past has the form of the imperfect (תאכל). Both צאן and בקר (notice ק rather than כ) are collectives. מָשָׁל is parable or proverb, whereas מֹשֵׁל is one who governs (participle). Rather than מבנים, it says "from the children of Israel" מבני ישראל. Also, the vowel in the alef of אלינו should be tsere.

The patach + dagesh under לקולו would represent the article, which has been added in addition to the 3ms suffix. It should לְקוֹלוֹ.

‘[A]ccording to (“as”) all that he shall say...’ would be כְּכָל־אֲשֶׁר־יֹאמַר or יַגִּיד or (as you've used) יְדַבֵּר. Notice that the word כל needs to go before אשר rather than after it.
Jason Hare
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www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
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— Quintilian
Glenn Dean
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Glenn Dean »

here she is
Spoiler: show
ישׁב בארץ ישׂראל עם לא עבד יהוה

וישׁלח יהוה בהם בהמה המדבר ויאכלו את צאנהם ואת בקרהם

וישׁלח הראשׁ להמלך אומר

ישׁלח המלך לנו כחן מבני ישׁראל לקולו שׁמעים ככל יאמר לנו
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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Jason Hare »

I think that dividing it up into lines is a good way of approaching it for translation. :)

Notice that "a people who served not the Lord" requires the word "who," which is the relative pronoun אשר. It isn't syntactically possible in Hebrew to write it without אשר. The DDOM is also required so that you should write את יהוה and not just יהוה.

The phrase בהמה should become construct in בהמה המדבר — that is, בֶּהֱמַת הַמִּדְבָּר. The suffixes for צאן and בקר should be the simple -am: צֹאנָם and בְּקָרָם.

The word ראש means "chief" or "leader" when it is in relation to another word, like ראש שבט. The translation says "ruler," which would probably be מֹשֵׁל (a participle of the verb משל). And the idea of "saying" to introduce a speech instance would be in the infinitive construct, לֵאמֹר.

Typo: כחן for כהן "priest."

You should also put אשר before לקולו. This is what Weingreen was indicating with "who to his voice" in parentheses. The "we will hearken" requires an imperfect (נשמע) rather than a participle (שֹׁמעים), and you're missing אשר again at the end (ככל אשר יאמר לנו).
Jason Hare
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www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
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Glenn Dean
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Glenn Dean »

First, thanxs for all the feedback!

I'm gonna ask my questions "one at a time" so I don't confuse myself (LOL)!

My first question is when I wrote עם לא עבד יהוה I was taking "am" to be singular and was using the participle ms עבד I sort of thought (or remembered) that an adjectival participle had an "embedded who/which" in it (so I thought I wrote "a people who didn't serve the Lord" ??)

Glenn
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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Jason Hare »

Hi, Glenn.

There is the example of עַם לֹא־יָדַעְ֫תִּי יַעַבְד֫וּנִי from Psalms 18:44 and 2 Samuel 22:44. There is also כֹּל הֹבִאישׁ עַל־עַם לֹא־יוֹעִ֫ילוּ לָ֫מוֹ in Isaiah 30:5. So, there is obviously precedent for it, but these are all poetry rather than prose. It is a phenomenon that we see in poetry, like the lack of DDOM and, often, expected prepositions.

It's more expected prose form to include the relative pronoun.
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
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Glenn Dean
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Glenn Dean »

Hi Jason:

I was trying to read up on when to use the simple possessive, and I can't quite figure out when to use one or the other - in fact I was at one site where they wrote both סוסהם and סוסם for "their horse". Is there a way to know to use the simple??

I need to review אשׁר , I'm not seeing why one puts it in and why leaving it out is incorrect (but possibly I don't understand relative clauses or something)

Glenn
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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.4

Post by Jason Hare »

The singular סוס takes ־ם and the plural סיסים takes ־הם (with the yod). That's the general rule.

בֵּיתָם "their house"
בָּֽתֵּיהֶם "their houses"
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
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