SKiN eM LeVY rule

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ducky
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by ducky »

I was trying to find that recording, but couldn't.

just for curiosity, please check how does he read the same words in Numbers 16.
verse 8 - שמעו נא
verse 9 - המעט
David Hunter
ducky
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by ducky »

Hi Jason,

Also with a definite letter, the M would be without Dagesh and read with a silent Sheva.
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Jason Hare
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by Jason Hare »

Do you also read וַיְהִי with a closed syllable vay-hi?
Jason Hare
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ducky
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by ducky »

yes
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Jason Hare
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by Jason Hare »

ducky wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:32 pmyes
I still pronounce it as vayəhî. It's normally marked with meteg: וַֽיְהִי. There are those who pronounce אֶהְיֶה as ʾehyeh and those who say ʾehəyeh. Reminds me of the song Shemesh by Hanan ben Ari, where in one line he pronounces it as ʾehyeh and in the next line ʾehəyeh (link).

I think one could read these verbs either way.

Listen up to the end of the first paragraph in Genesis 1 here, and you will see that he reads it as vayəhî.
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
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Jason Hare
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by Jason Hare »

Glenn,

You'll find that the question of the vocalization of sheva will have different answers, depending on who you ask. It's a matter of habit that varies. :)
Jason Hare
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www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
ducky
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by ducky »

Hi Jason,

The word ויהי is read vayhi.

This reader is the same reader that I thought Glenn heard.
And since I heard a lot of his reading before, I can tell you that he is not accurate.
Even in this chapter that you gave me to hear, he once says it like this, and once says it like that. (and it is the same word).

***
Not every Meteg is related to the Sheva (it can come for a few reasons).

***
If you want to say ויהי with a vocal Sheva because you feel more comfortable, then do it.
But the right way is with a silent Sheva.
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by Jason Hare »

I'm sure that the sheva in יִהְיֶה and אֶהְיֶה is silent, too (and that's how I pronounce it), but that doesn't discount the fact that a lot of people pronounce it as mobile. I don't think it's something that we can really be insistent about.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

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Glenn Dean
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by Glenn Dean »

ducky wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:33 pm I was trying to find that recording, but couldn't.

just for curiosity, please check how does he read the same words in Numbers 16.
verse 8 - שמעו נא
verse 9 - המעט
I purchased the audios by him (so it's not on the NET). LOL - I purchased this audio because it's "difficult" to listen to the "famous" audio for more than 1 minute :shock: :shock:

I listened to Numbers 16:8 and, to me atleast, it sounds like he's saying "shim-u na" (but in Is 7:13 he pronounced it super fast, but here in Numbers 16:8 he went real slow, and it sounds like he's saying SHIM-u na, i.e. accent on first syllable).

In Numbers 16:9, it sounds like ha-me-at (so the same as in Is 7:13)

Glenn
Isaac Fried
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Re: SKiN eM LeVY rule

Post by Isaac Fried »

Glenn writes
I was listening (and practicing my vocalization - OUCH!!) of Isaiah 7:13 where we see the word שִׁמְעוּ - I would pronounce this as "shim - u", but the recording I'm listening to he pronounces it as "shi - me - u" (as if there's a dagesh forte on the Mem).
be aware of the fact that the reading you are listening to is possibly dramatically enhanced for theatrical effects. It is an "artistic" reading.
The practice today among Hebrew speakers and readers is this: in a non-radical letter such as a בכלם prefix the schwa is made into a clear E for distinction. Say, בְּרוֹךְ be-rokh, 'with kindness', as opposed to בְּרוֹךְ brokh, 'calamity'. Also, לתל אביב le-Tel Aviv, בתל אביב be-Tel Aviv.
I would otherwise relent on any schwa and listen to myself. If it sounds good, then it is right. There is no need to fill the language with E-E-E. However, a letter, such as yod, that may get lost under a schwa is exaggerated, for example יהוּדי yehudi, and likewise היהוּדי hayehudi. However, גְּבוּל gvul, 'border', (and not gevul), and also הגבול hagvul.
The grammar book "rules" for the schwa "mobile" and the dagesh "forte" are theoretical.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
www.hebrewetymology.com
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