Isaiah 9:5-6

Discussion must focus on the Hebrew text (including text criticism) and its ancient translations, not on archaeology, modern language translations, or theological controversies.
Forum rules
Members will observe the rules for respectful discourse at all times!
Please sign all posts with your first and last (family) name.
Kenneth Greifer
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Isaiah 9:5-6

Postby Kenneth Greifer » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:27 pm

I have spent many years on a quest to solve one Hebrew Bible mystery, and so far everyone says I am wrong about every mystery I have tried to solve, and so the quest goes on. This time, I would like to show some of my alternative translations of Isaiah 9:5-6. You can see them on my site in volume 2 (PDF) starting on page 61, if you are interested in looking at very unusual alternative translations by an amateur.

http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/

Kenneth Greifer

Schubert
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:05 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Isaiah 9:5-6

Postby Schubert » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:08 pm

Hi Kenneth, as usual, it would help generate discussion if you were to include the Hebrew text under consideration.
John McKinnon

Kenneth Greifer
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Isaiah 9:5-6

Postby Kenneth Greifer » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:21 pm

John,

It is too many pages. I just wanted to let people look at it on the site. I don't have the full quotes in Hebrew on the site, just the words in Hebrew that I translate differently. I think that most Bible commentaries don't write out every Hebrew word. They just explain the quotes and what they think they say, and people look at their own books. Not every book writes out everything, as far as I know.

talmid56
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:02 am
Location: Carlisle, Arkansas, USA

Re: Isaiah 9:5-6

Postby talmid56 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:58 pm

Well, Kenneth, books do normally write out Hebrew texts that they comment on, at least the pertinent phrases or clauses under discussion. Since we are only dealing with two verses here, surely it couldn't take more than a few paragraphs to list your translations.
Dewayne Dulaney
דואיין דוליני

Blog: https://letancientvoicesspeak.wordpress.com/

כִּ֤י שֶׁ֨מֶשׁ׀ וּמָגֵן֮ יְהוָ֪ה אֱלֹ֫הִ֥ים חֵ֣ן וְ֭כָבוֹד יִתֵּ֣ן יְהוָ֑ה לֹ֥א יִמְנַע־ט֝֗וֹב לַֽהֹלְכִ֥ים בְּתָמִֽים׃
--(E 84:11) 84:12 תהלים

Kenneth Greifer
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Isaiah 9:5-6

Postby Kenneth Greifer » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:11 pm

9:5כִּי־יֶ֣לֶד יֻלַּד־לָ֗נוּ בֵּ֚ן נִתַּן־לָ֔נוּ וַתְּהִ֥י הַמִּשְׂרָ֖ה עַל־שִׁכְמ֑וֹ וַיִּקְרָ֨א שְׁמ֜וֹ פֶּ֠לֶא יוֹעֵץ֙ אֵ֣ל גִּבּ֔וֹר אֲבִיעַ֖ד שַׂר־שָׁלֽוֹם׃ 9:6לם‪F‬‏רבה לְמַרְבֵּ֨ה הַמִּשְׂרָ֜ה וּלְשָׁל֣וֹם אֵֽין־קֵ֗ץ עַל־כִּסֵּ֤א דָוִד֙ וְעַל־מַמְלַכְתּ֔וֹ לְהָכִ֤ין אֹתָהּ֙ וּֽלְסַעֲדָ֔הּ בְּמִשְׁפָּ֖ט וּבִצְדָקָ֑ה מֵעַתָּה֙ וְעַד־עוֹלָ֔ם קִנְאַ֛ת יְהוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת תַּעֲשֶׂה־זֹּֽאת׃ ס

Here are some examples of alternative names only:

"Is planning a wonderful thing Mighty God, Father of eternity, Ruler of peace. "
Or "God is planning a wonderful thing. The being strong (infinitive) of my father while a ruler of peace" or "while peace is ruling" or "while being a ruler of peace" or "while he sees peace."
I think some of these names could be for Menasseh, the son of King Hezekiah, about King Hezekiah's reign.

Then the quotes say that "for the increase of government and for peace there is not an end on the throne of David..."

I don't think it says "wonderful Counselor" or "wonderful in Counsel" as the first part of the name.

Kenneth Greifer
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Isaiah 9:5-6

Postby Kenneth Greifer » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:41 am

Kenneth Greifer wrote:9:5כִּי־יֶ֣לֶד יֻלַּד־לָ֗נוּ בֵּ֚ן נִתַּן־לָ֔נוּ וַתְּהִ֥י הַמִּשְׂרָ֖ה עַל־שִׁכְמ֑וֹ וַיִּקְרָ֨א שְׁמ֜וֹ פֶּ֠לֶא יוֹעֵץ֙ אֵ֣ל גִּבּ֔וֹר אֲבִיעַ֖ד שַׂר־שָׁלֽוֹם׃ 9:6לם‪F‬‏רבה לְמַרְבֵּ֨ה הַמִּשְׂרָ֜ה וּלְשָׁל֣וֹם אֵֽין־קֵ֗ץ עַל־כִּסֵּ֤א דָוִד֙ וְעַל־מַמְלַכְתּ֔וֹ לְהָכִ֤ין אֹתָהּ֙ וּֽלְסַעֲדָ֔הּ בְּמִשְׁפָּ֖ט וּבִצְדָקָ֑ה מֵעַתָּה֙ וְעַד־עוֹלָ֔ם קִנְאַ֛ת יְהוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת תַּעֲשֶׂה־זֹּֽאת׃ ס

Here are some examples of alternative names only:

"Is planning a wonderful thing Mighty God, Father of eternity, Ruler of peace. "
Or "God is planning a wonderful thing. The being strong (infinitive) of my father while a ruler of peace" or "while peace is ruling" or "while being a ruler of peace" or "while he sees peace."
I think some of these names could be for Menasseh, the son of King Hezekiah, about King Hezekiah's reign.

Then the quotes say that "for the increase of government and for peace there is not an end on the throne of David..."

I don't think it says "wonderful Counselor" or "wonderful in Counsel" as the first part of the name.


It could also say: "God is planning a wonderful thing. My father is strong while a ruler of peace" or "while peace is ruling" or "while being a ruler of peace" or "while he sees peace."

I have a few more alternative translations, but I am too lazy to list them. Anyway, the usual translation makes no sense as a list of names, so I think the words might actually say something else.

kwrandolph
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:51 am

Re: Isaiah 9:5-6

Postby kwrandolph » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:40 pm

Kenneth Greifer wrote:…Anyway, the usual translation makes no sense as a list of names, so I think the words might actually say something else.


Actually it does make sense as a list of names, when one looks at the use of “name” שם in Hebrew: it’s not used only for “name” but also for “title” and even “reputation”. This is not a list of names as we use “name” in English, rather a list of his attributes, what sort of person is he.

Karl W. Randolph.


Return to “Hebrew Bible”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests